Has anyone built a Bow Arm Morris Chair? I need some perspective. I have a client that likes the rockers I build but has asked for the chair. It looks quit simple enough but looks can be deceiving. I’m curious how anyone would rate this chairs construction and time frame to build.
For those who don’t know me my talents and shop are more than adequate.
Here’s a photo of the rockers I like to build when I have time from my cabinet work.
Replies
Potentially done in one long day, not including the time required for any templates (or maybe even then if you're a whippersnapper), also assuming you have a decent tablesaw, jointer, planer, and a mortiser that isn't prone to bogging down. There are no panel glue ups. If you have a decent pile of lumber to select from you ought to be cutting joinery sometime after lunch (conservatively) and gluing up assemblies by three-ish in the afternoon.
These kinds of chairs are on the low end of the spectrum of difficulty for chairmaking. For a solid intermediate, and in the grand scheme of things, they are "walk in the park" stuff. You can't get lazy and careless but when can you ever do that in woodworking, right?
Again, easy for a solid intermediate, not that hard for a fairly experienced beginner with a few decent projects under his or her belt.
Edited 4/3/2008 8:23 am ET by BossCrunk
Thanks. Mostly I've been curious about the pricing for these chairs.
I bid my work on three factors, actual time plus materials plus overhead plus markup. I will occasionally bump my pricing on what I call the emotional factor.
What I'm seeing with the pricing is that there must be an emotional aspect figured in the pricing.
I don't mean to diminish the chair at all. I recognize it has been a very desirable chair since it's creation. For those who desire it they are willing to pay for that emotional response.
Online I find it hard to buy this chair for less than $2700.00.
A days labor (your words), an upholsterer and finishing, add mass production it then begs the question.
Why aren't these chairs selling closer to $1500. Must be an added emotional tax.
I'm trying to research all I can before I price this chair to my client.
Edited 4/3/2008 9:15 am by jagwah
If what you are building can be easily found elsewhere (assuming essentially the same quality) then the market has, more or less, already been set. You may or may not be able to rely on lack of proper price discovery by your clientele.I think pricing one-off pieces or short runs out of a custom shop is as much an art as hopefully what comes out of it. In another life I had an accounting and finance background and a reasonably successful career in this area. I wouldn't even dream of trying to institute anything that even remotely looked like a cost accounting system to a one or two man custom furniture shop. The most common error when doing so is leaving gobs of money on the table and going out of business as a full-time custom furnituremaker.You ought to be able to find the market price, within a range, for Morris chairs. Unfortunately for the sole proprietor furnituremaker interested in this genre, these chairs are highly susceptible to mass manufacturing and the quality is as good or better than what you can accomplish in your own shop.
Edited 4/3/2008 9:55 am ET by BossCrunk
You may or may not be able to rely on lack of proper "price discovery" by your clientele.
Very interesting phrase "price discovery". I like it it gives a name to what I've been thinking this client has done.
She is very computer savvy,(works as a conceptual program designer), doesn't actually do the programing just creates the idea.
I know she is a Google Queen and must know the markets driving pressures. This in mind I've been perplexed a her request for me to make this chair for a $1000. Oh, and with the stool.
I'm thinking unfinished with no upholstery then maybe I can produce it for a grand but why should I. A chair such as this deserves the full treatment before it leaves my hands.
So this is my quandary, pricing something I'd like to build so that time pressures are eliminated and profit is reasonable enough to get and maintain more orders. Boy that's the marketing holy grail ain't it ?
The internet has made it possible for people to bracket your pricing against any number of custom furnituremakers around the country. They can check your pricing against somebody who may or may not take on the commission because of distance, but the client most of the time fails to understand this and take it into account. Joe Blow Look At My Website could be whoring up the market for handmade Windsors at $300 a pop, and even if he has a waiting list a mile long your client will want to know why you need $750 for one even though you can deliver in a few weeks. Not necessarily actual pricing, for illustration only. What can happen is that firms who can't actually deliver in a feasible time frame might be setting the price as far as your client is concerned.Price discovery - common term in marketing and economics.
Edited 4/3/2008 10:21 am ET by BossCrunk
I'm building one right now--daughter's college graduation gift(Hook'em Horns). I steam-bent the arms and glued up quadralinear legs--both time consuming. The legs are through-posted to the arms--for me, a tricky prep. The cushions are real leather--two hides, plus labor for an upholsterer. Hand rubbed oil finish--also time consuming.
I'm not a master furniture maker, but I possess enough skills and tools to pull it of in a quality manner and I don't see how you could just knock one out in a day or two.
By the way, Stickley retailers sell that chair for $2500-2800. Ottoman extra."How do you spell illiterate?"
If you do a search on Ebay for "morris chair," you will find that even $1000 is high. I build my own stuff, but have discovered that if I had a mind to, I could usually purchase something approximating what I was building, for about the cost of materials. Once, (and only once), I actually abandoned a project -- a set of devilishly challenging mission dining chairs -- when I found on Ebay almost exactly what I was building for less than the cost of the upholstery, let alone the wood. Based upon my experience, therefore, I would be astonished if you could make a living pricing custom furniture based upon the lowest internet prices. I would not even try.
Edited 4/3/2008 12:06 pm ET by Farkel
My pricing was not meant to meet the lowest internet price. Quite the contrary the lowest internet price that I saw was $2700. And as for E-Bay there was an original Bow Armed Chair up for bid and the last time I checked it was over $7000.
My prices reflect real cost and a good price for labor. My issue is wether this chair commands an extra kick in price due to the emotion the piece draws from prospective buyers.
Just because I might be able to produce an item at a low cost does not mean it should sell for a low cost. It should sell for whatever the market can bear and if the piece has a special draw a bit more.
I was just saying that the customer you have now, who has an internet-based price in mind, would probably not pay as much as you have in mind. If you can find others who will pay a fair price, go for it! That is the real marketing holy grail!
http://homes.midmaine.com/~shaffer/ found this link and saw the prices and I find it hard to believe that he can do the chairs so cheep so 2,700 sounds on the high end.
I suppose living in a swamp has its advantages.
Chaim
Make your own mistakes not someone elses, this is a good way to be original !
While not quite a Bow Arm they are similar in function. The price I agree is interesting.
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