Good Morning,
I have a bed to make and I was interested in using Lee Valley’s bed bolt that employs a cylindrical nut that is easy to install. http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=40445&cat=3,40842,41269
Has anyone used this style of bed bolt?
Thanks, TWG
Replies
Twig,
I've used many sets of LV bedbolts, for beds but also for large KD dining tables. I also used the giant size on the workbench I built.
Them bolt-sets are indeed well-made, strong and accurately machined. No worries as to their quality.
The item is easy to install insofar as you can do so with a standard drill and a few drill bits. However, you must be careful to align the bolt and nut holes carefully as the things will not mate if you get it at all wrong.
One technique is to use a drill press or a hand-held drill in one of those cradles, to keep the holes at 90 degrees to the workpiece surfaces. Naturally, you must mark out the paths of bolt and nut carefully, taking account of offsets between things like legs and rails. The essential thing is to drill right angle holes starting at exactly the right points. Use an awl to give the drill bit a starter-pit.
Another technique is to drill slightly (but only slightly: +/- a couple of mil) oversize holes, to give wriggle room for both bolt and round-nut. Too much wriggle room will just make it hard to align the bolt and nut.
Also, try to ensure that the nut hole is the right depth to align the nut to the bolt end; if the nut hole is too deep it can be a bugger to get the thing back up the hole enough so the bolt can engage. Don't forget to face the srewdriver slot on the end of the nut outwards when you put that nut doon the hole, otherwie you have no means to rotate it to align the bolt hole with the bolt end. (Obvious? Yes, but I've been there more than once). :-)
If you're going to countersink the bolt head so it's below the surface of the workpiece, drill a big flat-bottomed hole for the bolt head first then use the dimple in the centre of that hole (left by the forstner or spade bit point)to drill the smaller hole for the bolt shaft. It becomes problemtic to align the two holes if you try to do it in the opposite sequence. Make the big hole large enough in diameter so you can get a driver onto the bolt head once it's in the hole, otherwise you can't tighten it up.
Lataxe
PS LV also do some purty brass covers to hang over recessed bolt heads. But personally I like to make my own out of 4mm thick scrap with a nice bit o' grain in it. I hang them over the bolt-heads with posh brass screws or cut nails, depending on the style of the piece.
Thanks for the info. I have rarely been dissapointed with LV so I was happy to see they carried this style.
Your bed will be rock solid. I used a smaller bolt and cross dowel for my bed (1/4-20). I got away with this because I used tenons to take the shear forces and the bolts to hold the head board and foot board to the rails. With those bolts, you can skip the tenons. I might suggest while in the design stage to figure out how to cover the bolt heads. Mine were aesthetically pleasing, so they are exposed.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
When drilling the rails to accept the cross dowels, use a depth stop. It's a heart breaker to drill through after you've put so much time into something.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,Yes indeed! And also make sure there is enough thickness in the rail or whatever to get the nut-dowel aligned with the bolt without having to drill the nut-hole right through. I have fallen foul of this syndrome - but only once.Lataxe
TWG - These are essentially the same as the Veritas bench bolts, and I just installed a set of them in a new bench I'm making. They work very, very well, and are simpler to install than routing a recessed groove for a standard hex nut.
By the way - It's important, of course, to get the bolts and round nuts lined up, and that can be a challenge over a span of 4-6" - just a couple of degrees off on the hole, and you may have trouble getting the bolt to engage the brass nut.
Chris Schwarz wrote a supplemental chapter to his Workbenches book that deals with knock-down designs, and in this chapter is a description of a jig he used to exactly line up the long hole for the bolt and the end-hole for the nut. You can find this chapter at:
http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Download+A+New+Chapter+To+The+Workbenches+Book+Free.aspx
I made one of these jigs, and drilled eight perfectly lined up holes - no adjustments needed. It's worth doing.
Edited 11/14/2008 7:32 pm ET by dkellernc
David,
Can you double check the link you posted to the drilling jig. It doesn't work for me - I get a "page cannot be displayed" screen.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hmmm - I'm not sure how that happened; it's fixed now. He also published a blog entry about making portable Nicholson-style benches that had a picture of a router jig designed to cut slot mortises and trenches for regular hex nuts and bolts. I personally prefer the Veritas solution because it's sturdy, dirt simple, and gives a cleaner look (I put my sinks for the round head nut on the outside - I didn't mind the hole in the stretchers), but if someone doesn't want to pay the $24 for a set of 4 bench bolts or $15 for a set of the bed bolts, it's an alternative.
Edited 11/14/2008 7:37 pm ET by dkellernc
Thanks David. I like his line: "One day every year is "mallet day" wehn I go around the house beating all the tusks tight again." P3, paragraph 3. I thoroughly enjoy his writing.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Yeah, Chris - I remember that line well. That's one of the reasons I didn't use wedged tenons on the new knock-down workbench that's (finally!) being completed today. I don't mind paying the $24 that Lee Valley is asking for the bench bolts to avoid having to smack the crap out of the wedges every time I need to do heavy planing.
I'm pretty sure this attitude would not be popular with those that like Arts and Crafts furniture, but I actually consider wedged tusk tenons kind of ugly - sort of like someone forgot to finish the piece. I suppose, however, that sort of "refined primitive" is part of the appeal of A&C furniture.
David,
Congrats on completing the bench. How many weeks/months has this been in the making? I'll look forward to seeing the results.
Wedged tenons are just another form of exposed joinery, in my book. Not much different than through dovetails. I gives a very strong appearance and of course can be readily disassembled.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris - This was a hurry-up bench designed to be relatively small (sorta) light, and will fit into the back of my pickup truck. I used a previously-glued up 6' maple top that I'd had laying around the shop for years, so that cut the time requirement. Nevertheless, since I decided to make the two support trestles with a draw-bored M&T joint on the bottom rail, and the top rail has a draw-bored giant dovetail, it took about a week's worth of shop time to complete, including milling the rough lumber. One of the biggest consumers of time was this freakin' tail vise. Though I purchased a metal vise, the wood-work and mounting is really complex, and a very small mistake in dimensions will render the vise inoperable. If I do it in the future, I'm going to dispense with the tail vise and just install another Jorgensen quick-release in that position. The Jorgensen cost about $80 more, but the mount is simple, easy, and quick - worth it, in my opinion.
Regarding the wedged tenons - I should have been more specific. I use exposed wedged, glued, tenons that are sawn flush to the exterior surface all the time. I just don't like non-glued, take-apart wedged tusk tenons.
That method of joining rails to post is very good- probably the best way of doing it. For maximum strength and convenience I have used them with a stub tenon and mortice-something like 10mm deep,or a depth which suits your router cutters (use a bearing guided rebate cutter to do the tenon).
I have made them myself and had the brass nut end showing from the outside. The end is slightly below the surface, flush with a chamfer on the periphery of the hole.No slot.
The bolt hole does not have to be a close fit, but obviously it needs to be reasonably straight....Better to have some wiggle room.
You can also buy some square nuts and bolts with washers.
FYI
This attachment methodology is sound. You may be interested in knowing that bolts engaging cylindrical nuts is exactly the method that attaches the wings on MD 88-90 airplanes.
Fascinating. Do you know which size of bolts they use? 3" diameter?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I have not done this work in a long time but they probably are in the 7/8 or 1 inch diameter range. Can't remember how many probably 25 or 30. Specifically this method is used to attach the outer wings to the center wing. The center wing is roughly the same width as the fuselage and is used as a fuel tank just as the wings are. If you sit in an overwing emergancy exit row, the wing and fuel tank are about 6 inches below your feet.
Rockler has a very similar bolt and nut, and I think the price might be a little better. _____WW57
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