I just got my hands on a 200 year old butternut tree that came down in a storm. I am going to mill it using a chainsaw mill. I am looking for tips on where and how to store it until it’s ready for use. Thanks
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
Paint the cut ends with melted paraffin, so it dries slowly.
Sticker it with 1x2s a foot or 18 inches apart on a level deck, preferably in a building, if not, covered with a tarp in shade.
Rule of thumb for air drying is one year per inch thickness.
Have fun, butternut's a lovely wood.
would storing in the basement be a good idea or would that cause it to dry to quickly
I wouldn't store it in the basement as you need good air circulation all round the wood. Also not sure how dry the air is in your basement.
It would be better to store it outside if possible. It needs to be off the ground as previously said and kept flat and stickered between layers of boards. If you need specifics on how to do this I'll gladly find it for you.
Better yet, go the the Home page here on Fine Woodworking and enter drying wood into the search box. You'll get several articles on how it's done.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/3/2009 9:16 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
You've got my attention! A 200 year old butternut is quite the treasure. I would gladly take that off your hands if you don't need the hassle of milling and drying (and using up)! I've been working with butternut a fair bit lately, though mine is only in firewood lengths. Amazing stuff - really easy to carve. And I love the colour. (You're not in the Vancouver area, are you?)
Ok, say that you decline my offer and keep the materil to yourself. Seal the end grain right away. I recommend end-grain sealer (wax emulsion). Others will recommend oil or latex paint. Store it in an area out of the sun and with good air movement and let it dry for about a year per inch of thickness. Then bring it indoors (into your basement or shop) and let the moisture content stabilize. Remember to use lots of stickers (3/4" is a good size) between each layer to promote airflow.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thanks for all the info. Sorry I"m in NJ
Don't be sorry that your from NJ! so am I!
Now you can be sorry! LOL.
Chaim
"Sorry I"m in NJ"Isn't it supposed to work the other way around (we being sorry for you)? ;-)
When you sticker it don't put cinder blocks on it to keep it straight.. The grit which comes off those will ruin planner blades.
Use those cheap racheting straps (about 1 inch in width) and set them directly over the stickers Tighten them snug and then retighten them about a week later, then every two weeks untill they no longer tighten up.
If you cover the top with a tarp, don't cover the sides! You want airflow!
Parrafin(wax) is best for the ends to prevent splits but you can use paint.. however you must apply it three times to really seal the ends.. right away, about a month later and about 3 months later..
when you cut the boards cut a few inches longer than you need, say 8'6" instead of just 8' .. That will help you deal with the snipe that so often happens..
You will see recommendations for several different end-coatings --- paraffin, paint, roofing sealer to name a few. I've used paraffin, because it's easily available and easy/clean to apply. However, if I were handling a treasure like the butternut, I'd order some Anchorseal <click> and use that. A quick Google will provide several sources, including the ubiquitous Amazon.
forestgirl,
I've often wondered if wood releases stress along with water as it's drying out? And of course the question, does sealing the ends block the stress, if any, and cause all sorts of twisting, cupping, etc.
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
My understanding is that sealing the ends helps even out the moisture release of the board. End-grain releases moisture faster than the rest of the board, so if the end-grain isn't sealed, moisture evaporates too quickly in that area, and you get checking at the ends. Beyond that, I don't know what that rapid release does to the rest of the board. I would think that moisture would migrate toward those unsealed ends.
At any rate, no -- sealing does not create stresses, twisting and all that stuff. Sealing isn't a "wive's tale" -- it's a proven necessary part of the drying process.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You hit the nail on the head. Moisture leaves the wood the fastest through the end grain, but also through the side and long grain (think about the analogy with straws as wood fibers). Stresses can either be caused by how the tree grows (twisting, bending around things or to get more light) or by improper drying, namely drying the wood too fast (case hardening). Warpage during drying is caused mostly by improper support (don't stand wood up to dry - lay it down) and uneven moisture loss which is minimized by use of stickers to promote even airflow. This is how I understand it, anyhow.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
forestgirl,
sealing does not create stresses
Wasn't suggesting that sealing creates stresses but rather does it prevent them being released as part of the drying process? Maybe I didn't word my response correctly, not the first time. :-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I have a lot of experience drying wood, so I'll add what I know. Most of this has been said already, but in varying posts, and in varying degree's of correctness.The ends of logs should be sealed as quickly as possible after the tree has been felled, preferably in the "immediately" range. Because moisture in the log is lost much more rapidly through the end grain than through the face or long grain, uneven drying near the ends of the log or milled lumber can cause all sorts of trouble. Checking at the ends of a board can render up to a foot (or more) on each end useless. On a 10 foot board, that can result in a 20% loss of timber, which is a lot. Also, end checking can cause uneven drying, which can also lead to stresses in the lumber. When parts of the board are drying much faster than others, internal stresses can result. These stresses can wreak havoc on the usability of the timber.Whether air drying or kiln drying, controlling the speed at which the timber loses moisture is critical. Dry too slow, and decay and degrade can be a problem. Dry too fast, and honeycombing and case hardening, which is the collapse of the inner cellular structure, can also destroy the wood for woodworking use. (It does make fine firewood, though!)Getting the lumber below 20% MC (moisture content) is important, as fungus will not grow below this point. I try to do this by allowing plenty of air circulation through the stacks of sawed lumber, which will usually get the MC below 20% in less than 45-60 days on almost any species.We often hear the ole' wives tale about the rule of 1 year of air drying per 1" of timber thickness. I chuckle every time I hear this. It is such a fallacy. EVERY SPECIES dries at a different rate. Some species, such as cherry (my personal favorite) and walnut, will air dry (4/4 stock) in less than 6 months in ideal conditions. Others, such as hickory, osage orange, black locust, red oak, etc....can take 2 to 3 years for 4/4 stock to get to equilibrium with the outside environment. I've had 16/4 stock, in cherry, take 8 years to dry ( I have some right now that is almost ready to work).Stickering and stacking are critical to the final results of the timber. As "Frenchy" stated, it is critical to have an even, level stack. When stickering, you don't want the individual boards too close together, as this can restrict air flow. Having the stickers lined up vertically is also critical, as the load is evenly distributed from the top of the stack to the bottom. Also, it's worth mentioning that these stacks of drying lumber should be restacked and boards turned (top to bottom, etc....)for best results (air drying, that is!) I also use the ratcheting straps, but I use a sheet of plywood on top of the stack, and load it with cinder blocks. The plywood keeps the grit of the cinder blocks from getting on the timber, and I've never had a problem with debris in the wood, as frenchy describes.There are entire papers and books written on this subject. I've just covered the tidbits. A fantastic source for more information is at woodweb. Gene Wengert (sp?) from UW Madison is a wealth of information at that site regarding milling and drying wood. Another great internet source is at Forestryforum.com. If you want to learn about cutting and drying logs, those guys at that site are the pro's.I hope this adds to this discussion, and helps debunk some of the fallacies. Also (I ALMOST FORGOT TO MENTION) Latex paint is NOT a reliable source for end grain sealing, and should not be relied upon. Many, many controlled tests have been performed for end grain sealing, and latex paint comes up on the losing side of the equation every time. It should not be relied upon, just as 4 years for 16/4 cherry or walnut drying times is wrong, too.
Good post. I would call the 1 year per inch of thickness rule a very general rule of thumb, not an old wive's tale though.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I don't wish to argue, but facts are facts. The 1" rule is an old wives tale. It stops dead in its tracks after 4/4 stock, and only works for a very few species, such as white oak and sugar maple. Cherry, walnut, and poplar 4/4 stock dries much quicker than a year, and most other species take much, much longer. Don't take my word on it, though. Go read a scientific paper on it. Several are available, and you can ask Dr. Gene Wengert personally at woodweb. Please don't believe everything you hear, especially on the forums.I also have some 12/4 cherry stock that was cut in April of 2006. I use it for chair leg and table leg stock. As of two weeks ago, it's at 16%, stacked and stickered inside out of the weather with proper ventilation and air flow, since it dropped below 20% MC. In another year, it'll be ready. That's 4 1/2 years.
Edited 8/7/2009 7:35 pm ET by PrunusSerotina
Where do you live? What is the climate like there?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I'm in the midwest great lakes region, with high humidity swings in summer, and very dry and cold in the winter.
Do you test the MC with sacrificial buried check boards throughout the stack like they do in humidity reduction kilns?
Just wondering on relative technique relative to spike probing the actual board for center MC.
ThanksBoiler
For my part, all of the wood I mill is air dried. When the MC is as low as it is going to get, I use my shop, which is climate controlled, as the final kiln. I have a wall rack on a wall in the shop where I sticker-stack my lumber. It only takes a few months for the MC to get from around 12% to 8% (approximately). I use a Lignomat pin type MC tester. I test by cutting a few boards from different places in the stack. The pin-type moisture meter has been very effective for me, as I have had no problems with wood movement to speak of. (I have only had to replace one door on a cabinet job in ten years due to warping.)I don't work in a lot of different species. Most of my work is in cherry, maple, walnut, or poplar. I keep enough of each species ready in the shop for work, and replace what I use regularly.
Thanks for the info. - good stuff.
I'm prolly a fanatic when it comes to stickering. Not to the extent that I have stickers every 6" but I keep all my milled wood in the woodshop stickered all the time.
Whenever I mill pieces they get stickered when I'm done. I use the beads ripped from flooring to allow air to move freely around the wood. Have no real proof that it works but it sets my mind at ease anyway. I recall reading some time ago about keeping wood stickered during the milling process and have done it ever since.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The steps you take are very wise. Keeping wood stickered, even when idle during the building process, allows even air flow and will help keep freshly surfaced and planed boards from taking on moisture on one side of the board, causing cupping and warping problems.I sticker my stacks about every 16" to 20". I don't measure, but just eyeball it. I have learned from my errors 10 years ago when I first starting milling my own logs, and have a pretty good grasp of what works well. If it isn't broke, don't fix it! Right?
Ahhhh, I went back and re-read your first post, I see what you meant now. Are you thinking the stresses are water-soluble <grin>?? More mechanical than that, methinks. Wood fibers interlocking, twisting, shorter on one side than the other, dried unevenly, etc., etc., etc. We keep this up, I'll be dragging out my copy of Hoadley's book, truly trying to understand the physics of it all!
We have lots and lots of Madrona trees around here, you wanna see some twisting and reaction wood! Wow!!! They tend to lean out from where they are planted, big arching sweeps, super-hard and heavy wood, twisting as it grows. Yet, once in awhile, a tree will grow big in such a way that it can be turned into lumber. I have a 4x12 slab that's 10' long that I got in trade for finding a maple tree for a miller. Some day..... Gotta be the right project though.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
JG,
I didn't read the entire post, so if I am repeating what someone else has already said please forgive me. A 200 year old butternut tree might provide some spectacular lumber, especially if sawn correctly (I'm thinking really wide planks). I think a Chainsaw mill would be wasteful. You might consider finding a local sawer with a portable band saw mill. I think they will have better control over the finished boards, be able to saw wider pieces, and be less wasteful of the potentially beautiful material.
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled