I would like to supplement my woodworking skills by learning more about metalworking; specifically, the kinds of skills necessary to build and repair tools and equipment, make my own knives, hinges and drawer pulls, make metal-bodied infill planes, etc.
Can anyone recommend some goods books on the subject?
Thanks!
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t, you’re right.
Replies
Hi Jazzdog... You've posed an interesting question. Making hinges and door-pulls is the craft of the blacksmith. Knives are that special area of blacksmithing that takes the longest to learn.
Let's see... basic equipment consists of a variety of hammers and tongs along with a forge and an anvil, along with an assortment of small accessories that are also needed. As planing is to woodworking, hammer-crafting is to the blacksmith. It takes lots of practice to adjust the heat, properly heat the metal and then do the hammer-work with the least amount of hammer strokes. If you get the metal too hot (and you CAN) it will rapidly deteriorate. If the metal is not hot enough, it will develop cracks as you try to force the metal into shape. If the metal is quenched (cooled) too soon, it also affects the metal.
Once you have learned and perfected the skills of a blacksmith, now you must learn how to critically control the temperature and size of your fire so you can now make a blade that will hold a cutting edge. Again, lots of practice, learned under the careful tutelage of a master blacksmith. Here, heat, metalurgy and quenching are much more critical. In other words, It's a snap. There are many amateur blacksmiths out there, willing to teach youu the craft, providing you have the time. One very good book is 'Edge of the Anvil by Jack Andrews. It is published by the Rodale Press. ISBN # 0-87857-186-8 or ISBN # 0-87857-195-7. It was originally printed in 1977, but I believe it is still in print.
Having done repairs on the machinery I own, but no formal training, I guess the skills needed are the ability to read a parts break-down list and the ability to trouble shoot (think.. a doctor listening to a patient.) It is not the ability to take a machine apart that is important, but rather the ability to put it back together in working order without having any parts left over.
SawdustSteve in cols, snow-covered, New York
Jazzdog,
I've been thinking about the same thing as of late...keep in mind I have no experience in metalworking, but I'm about two weeks ahead of you in terms of research :-)
I believe that there are two parts to this -- the first is being able to work metal (anealing, tempering, etc...) to make irons and blades and the first person who repsonded to you was focused on this. The second part, and the part to which I think you're most interested, is in machine shop type of skills. Turning and milling brass, threading, boring, etc... making gears, threaded rods, etc... requires some equipement, but not a forge or a traditional blacksmith setup. That being said, I ordered an introductory mini-lathe DVD from http://www.littlemachineshop.com to see what that's all about. When you watch a DVD like this, I'll bet a lot of wheels start turning in your head....This web site primarily sells parts, but if you go to the links section they have links to some very good home machine shop-centric pages.
Cheers,
Michael
they must have been thinking about you -- try this one
http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/sitelinks/summer.htmlthey list "Metal Casting for Furniture Makers" - i believe this is the 1st time they have offered it.jerry
Looks good -- unfortunately Fort Bragg, CA is a bit of a drive from Groton, MA....:-)
You're entering a whole new realm, but I think if you understand craftsmanship, you won't have much trouble learning the skills it takes to do the things you want to do. The question you need to ask yourself, though, is"How much time do I have to devote to this?"
Having said that, I have some books to recommend:
For hardening and tempering steel, I recommend "Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop".
For light metalwork, such as jewelry work(or hinges)- "The Complete Metalsmith" by Tim McCreight
For wooden plane making- Making Traditional Wooden Planes" by Whelen
For infill planes-"Making and Modifying Woodworking tools" by Jim Kingshott. Also visit the Shepherd Toolworks site.
For machinery repair,visit the Old Woodworking Machines website.
Hope this helps.
Rick W.
Good move. Learning metal working was one of the best things I ever did.
The McCreight book is a good one as well as the Kingschott, Making and Modifying Tools but it's out of print and hard to find. Jewelry making sources are a big help as hardware for furniture is oversized jewelry. Starting with brass is a plus as you can use a table saw and negative hook blade to cut it plus a lot of other wood tools such as belt sander can be utilized. Learning how to silver braze is a must and getting a small oxy-acetylene torch and $200 horizonatl/vertical bandsaw is a good start for additional tools. Get catalogs from Gesswein, Rio Grande, http://www.metalliferous.com, http://www.contenti.com are good learning tools as well. Going to the library and looking at books on machining, jewelry, and general metal craft work are very useful. There's some great general metalworking books that cover basic machining, bending metal, fastening with rivets, threading, soldering, etc. Metalworking can cover a broad range of useful stuff from bodywork on cars (sheetmetal work is handy). Lots of good metal working sites around as well. http://www.metalshapers.org
http://www.artmetal.com/
Many basic woodworking tools were used to make the lamp pictured here including the table saw. The brass is bright nickel plated. Plating, polishing and patination are very useful things as well.
iv'e come across this magazine a few times at barnes an noble...
http://www.homeshopmachinist.net
it deals with milling more than the blacksmith side, but looks pretty interesting to a guy that doesn't do anything with metal
oak
Now I'm a tool nut, so the following may entail slippery slopes you may discard as foolish.
My metal working "skills", and I do use the term loosely started primarily with cutting edges. If you sharpen yer own tools, you gotta have a grinder and few files.
then yer sharp edges need honing, so you get a little into polishing compounds and buffing wheels.
If you build and install cabinets, sooner or later you is gonna run into kick-space ductwork, and then you get a few different kinds of snips.
Just as likley you will have to modify a few mending plates to accomodate screws, and perhaps you pick up a vail or two of cutting oil,
and then somehow yer into pragmatic sheet metal, then you learn about benders and pick up a few of em at garage sales, cause nobody else knows what they are, they are obtainable cheap.
One yer into that, sooner or later you gotta cut circular inserts into ducting, and yer into nibblers. The sharp edges lead you into deburring tools and vice-grip metal bending pliers. A dryer duct installation or two and yer the proud owner of a crimping tool.
Next thing you know, you is starting to augment yer tool kit with stuff like a simple micrometer or three, Wire gauges, carbide pens, etc etc, and suddenly yu find yerself with a tool box full of sheet metal tools and associated paraphenalia.
Thats kinda of the plebian and pragmatic scope of things round here, . but then you happen to pick up an old starrett catalogue, and a whole new world of possibilities opens up. Wood lathe too big? , get a craftsman 109. suddenly you realize you is becoming a metal head. Thread cutting becomes "interesting"
Need a plane, make yer own now that the terminolgy is no longer greek, but you gotta make and temper the blade.What the heck, you got the grinder and buffing wheels to do it, But when you see the rockwell hardness tester at the pawn shop, you start to think about how useful it would be.
And if you work in stairs, suddenly the exterior wrought iron balustrades need a small mig welder to repair em. Hardly in the same class of tool as TS, BS, RAS, BS, etc. Suddenly you can't rely on yer old WWing buddies for advice, you gotta talk to welders to get the pearls of wisdom. . Now yer support group is so much bigger.
And from the old catalogues and the 109 accesories, you do need a tool chest doncha? and that leads you to Gerstner machinsts chests, and back to wood butchery.
But wait, yer expidition has led you to an appreciation of the metalworkers supposed precision, so you suddenly have to have vernier calipers beside the table saw, a "Machinists Handbook" by the lathe. (Yer WWing lathe which might have been OK for the last quarter century, is now gathering dust as you exploit the MW lathe, and yes even use it for wood turning. ) You may even end up scouring the old starrett catalogue or ebay for micrometers, sundry wierd calibers, highly precise protractors and all other wierd and wonderful metalworking tools that even the most profund and comprehensive mail order wwing cataolgues have not mentioned in the last quarter century.,
Now thats all likely categorized as mensuration (check the spelling folks), and is likely as applicable to woodbutchery as it is to metalworking, but theres also metalurgy to consider. You may find out you need a funky little heat-treating furnace to temper yer home-made plane blades. Heck, even for soldering, you find that that weller pistol grip just don't have enuf guts or mass for big stuff, Heck, you might even find about simple case hardening compound.
Thinking about bigger stuff. Well, fireplace surrounds for me incorporate ####bunch of peened copper. and I have to attach it. Peened copper? well them ball peened hammers you got a few of, well they ain't likely to cut the mustard with peened copper. And any offerings at any WWing stores or industrial suppliers are not worth considering.
You guessed it, you gotta get yer butt to the jewelry supply store. Now, if you been a woodworker for a few years, you likely seen a few wwwing stores you could have/would have put yer faith in. Yer now somewhat interested in getting into metalwork, and you sense theres a few deficincies in the offerings of the WW store suppliers,or perhaps the quality of offshore tools is putting you off a tad, so you end up at industrial suppliers. But by the time the need to post the "request for metal working skills for woodworkers" kicks in, yer already likely shopping at the industrial supplier shopping stage. The jewelers supply store is merely a way to expand the knowledge base, see what "pragmatic precision" is currently available , and provided you can keep yer wallet in yer pocket, yer eyes get opened a little wider.
Now I dunno how far you wanna go, and which slippery slope you wanna slide down, but there are certainly several paths to follow. Methinks merely by asking the question you did, you ain't gonna need much of a push to start down whatever slope interests you.
Sheet metal, tool steel, machining, smithing, they are all out there in the internet world.
Yer question is interestig, cause I have often mused and wondered just how in the heck I, as a cabinetmaker, came to be doing what metalwork I do. My musings have let me at least conceptualize how it came to be for me at least.
Last point for me to offer here.... Bandaids..... metal edges is sharp. That was part of my learning curve, some wicked nasty slashes, and they happen quick and easy with metalwork, and when they happen, cut real deep, and sometimes don't bleed profusely for the first few seconds. Get some bandaids, and keep em handy..
Enjoy.
Eric in Cowtown.
great post cowtown...
Eric (Cowtown)I enjoyed the way you chronicled your foray into working with various aspects of metal. Nearly the same thing happened with me over the past few months as I began to explore different options for rain leaders off our new gutters on the house. Picked up some things like little upside down bells that didn't work all that well because of the way they were formed. Surely if I could figure out how to make these I could improve on the design.Enter the world of metal spinning.Then, wouldn't a nice spun pewter goblet bowl look cool on a stem of cherry or something? A nice fruit bowl with a copper inner lining. Lamp shades for the outdoor lighting over the shop door, bird feeders with turned wood bases, etc., etc.But ....Need a different kind of tool rest for the lathe to do spinning. Now we're back to working some CR steel, drilling many holes in a piece or 3/4" flat bar stock and welding a post on it for the spinning rest.One thing leads to another, even if you're not doing this stuff for a living. Or maybe it's worse if'n you're not! (grin)...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis was saying...I enjoyed the way you chronicled your foray into working with various aspects of metal. Nearly the same thing happened with me over the past few months as I began to explore different options for rain leaders off our new gutters on the house. Picked up some things like little upside down bells that didn't work all that well because of the way they were formed. Surely if I could figure out how to make these I could improve on the design.Enter the world of metal spinning.Dennis....That is one area I ain't ever gone to. Yet. And thanks for the positive comment. only my progress encompassed about 10 years. I gotta learn the hard way it seems. Maybe why thats why the "sheet metal pattern books" on ebay have always commanded premium prices. After all, why re-invent the wheel. I can envision you now, searching on ebay for Eavestrough Tool* stuff.Good luck to ya. The search is sometimes more than half the fun.Eric,
in CalgaryThe slippery slope
Jazz
I commend you for your plan. I had the same "itch" a few years ago and got into the metal working, and I have to say it made a better woodworker of me. Where before I felt that measuring in sixteens of an inch was pretty fine work, I often found in the metal working that one thousands of an inch was coarse work! I bought a number of books and just dug in. The books and mags listed by others are great starts. I found the knife books to be of great interest regarding hardening and tempering. I made several tools (gouges, marking knives, etc), plus a few "very special to us" custom knives for family members.
I purchases an old Atlas 6 inch engine lathe that I learned to use by reading the books. I could not find any tech courses to take, other than welding, so I did it on my own, and loved it. I don't do a lot of metalwork now, having changed shops, so I will likely be selling off my lathe and stuff, but some tools (such as my dial caliper) have become everyday tools and skills. I have one book on making woodworking tools that covers the process very well, but it is likely out of print. I picked it up through a book club 10 yrs ago. I am not at home now to check the title, sorry -- but will try to remember and get it this evening. I think it is exactly what you want.
As I said, learning to work metal increased my skills as a woodworker, plus it was just downright fun! I love watching those metal cuttings spiral from a lathe, almost as much as watching the wood curls spilling from a sharp plane.
Woody
Hi Jazzdog ....
I'm with ya on the metal working stuff. I'm less an accomplished metal worker than woodworker, even, but just having a welder and a second drill press for working iron along with a couple angle grinders makes it nice when you have to build something outta steel. I'd add to what Sawdust Steve said about forging that a small bench model engine lathe and perhaps an end mill would really broaden your horizons. Especially with respect to the building, repair or restoration of machinery. I don't have either at this point but they're highest on my tool wish list.
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Home Shop Machinist magazine and other titles from Village Press. I learned 2/3 of what I think I know about metalworking from HSM. Back issues are often available on eBay.
http://www.villagepress.com/subpub/pbvp.cfm
HSM also sponsors an online forum with a mix of good data, bad data, and mindless shrieking that will be familiar to any Knots or Breaktime reader.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ubbs/Ultimate.cgi
The Machinist's Bedside Reader. Much of the rest of what I think I know about metalworking came from TMBR and other sources it led me to. You can usually get it cheaper from other booksellers, but I link to the publisher's site because the description at most booksellers' sites is not as complete.
http://www.lautard.com/books.htm
Lindsay's Technical Books. Mostly reprints of older metalworking books, many of which are more suitable for a home shop than current books on industrial metalworking. Several books on home shop metal casting, since you mentioned making planes.
http://www.lindsaybks.com/
Machinery's Handbook. Not a lot on processes, but an invaluable reference.
http://www.industrialpress.com/en/Item.asp?BookID=176
MSC Industrial Supply Co. Tools and materials. Huge catalog. Just the vast array of available stuff will give you ideas. The catalog has some information on heat treating tools steels. I don't like the web site, but you can use it to order a catalog. McMaster-Carr, Brownell's, and Grainger are some other big catalogs you can get ideas from.
http://www.mscdirect.com
Reconditioning Machine Tools. How to scrape cast iron really, really flat. No web site, but HSM has ads for it.
Other web sites:
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/ - FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking
http://www.metalwebnews.com/ - lots of links
Gerstner Tool Chests. Tool box porn.
http://www.gerstnerusa.com/
A great many thanks and a debt of gratitude to all of you who have so generously responded thus far. I am overwhelmed that you have taken so much time and expended so much effort to aid a fellow knothead who's Jonesing to expand his meager capabilities!Doesn't look like I'll lack for reading material any time soon!Which specific skills do you find yourself using most often? Welding? Brazing? Tempering? Forging? Machining? Casting?Here's to new books, equipment, skills, and certainly not least, friendly fellow knotheads!-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Jazz -Speaking for myself with respect to what type of metal work I do mostly, it's merely a case of what tools I have available. Since I have a welder and a set of gauges (for gas welding, brazing and cutting) that's mostly what I do. As I implied, though, I lust after a good accurate engine lathe for making things that require more accuracy than a portable power hacksaw, welder, grinding wheel and, let's not forget, ball peen hammer can produce.My latest passion which has a long way to go before I can proclaim any proficiency is metal spinning. Took a class a few weeks ago and made a few trays and bowls from copper, pewter and aluminum. What a blast! I have all kinds of ideas on how to incorporate spun metal work with turned wood objects.So many neat things to try, ..... so little time............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I've done more machining than anything else. That includes a fair bit of hacksawing and filing. A little dab of hardening and tempering. I'm about halfway through shaping a plane iron for a block plane out of 5/32" A2 tool steel. Haven't decide yet whether to try hardening it myself or send it out.
Unc Dunc,Thus far, my approach to metalworking has been one of necessity. Working brass for handmade spokeshaves, shaping, modifying, and honing cutting tools, tapping and threading the occasional hole in a cast iron tool to accept a bolt, sweating copper pipe, cutting angle iron to various lengths and drilling it to accept fasteners. I'm more than a little curious about brazing, welding, and casting. And a recent visit by a Japanese master blacksmith who makes laminated plane irons and chisels has me totally intrigued - though I don't see myself investing in a forge and seeking old ship's anchors for tool stock any time soon!I'd compare my nascent interest in metalworking to the retroactive epiphany I experienced after developing my meager hand tool joinery, sharpening, and finishing skills: how the heck did I manage to accomplish anything meaningful during my previous decades as a woodworker without these abilities?!
It's nice to know there is ALWAYS something new to learn: as long as I remain physically healthy and metally competent, woodworking and its allied fields of interest can help stimulate my brain and keep me on a path toward life-long learning (the real fountain of youth).OK. Back to carving that acanthus leaf!-Jazzdogg-Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Edited 3/3/2005 12:47 pm ET by jazzdogg
Hey Jazzdogg, You should have the problem that I have. An old friend of mine that I shared shop space with back in the eighties , now retired, has started wandering off in this same direction, and has already got a considerable investment in equipment. His backyard is so full of the stuff that he can't realistically work at it.
Now he wants me to let him move it all down here. While I like the idea, the fire hazard is just so great here. My shop is an old 5000' grocery store that was built in the 1920's......... Maybe if I can finish the sailboat, I can convert that space.
Uncle Dunc -You mention you've done some steel hardening. Can you explain in brief (if that's possible) what's involved in the process? I've got two little circular cutting disks I need to make or have made. They're for a circle shear I'm trying to scab together for cutting circular disks out of soft copper and aluminum. My brother is a machinist and can fab the disks to my specs but he's not set up for doing any heat treating or case hardening or whatever is required for this kind of thing.Thanks. Feel free to email me off list if you prefer............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
>> Can you explain in brief (if that's possible) ...Whole books have been written on the subject, but that sounds like a worthy challenge. :o) The one sentence summary is: Heat the workpiece (presumed to be hardenable steel) to bright, cherry red and cool it rapidly, usually by quenching it in a suitable liquid.A hardenable steel is one which contains enough carbon. Steels with a lower carbon content harden only superficially or not at all when subjected to this treatment.Case hardening is a process for hardening a low carbon steel by soaking it at high temperature in a high carbon environment until the surface absorbs enough carbon to be hardenable. The thin, high carbon shell is the case.For most applications, the workpiece is too hard as it comes out of the quench tank, and has to be tempered by re-heating it to a specified temperature lower than the critical hardening temperature.There are lots and lots of complications and possible problems, which is why there are whole books on the subject. Different alloys demand different quenching mediums and cooling rates. Prolonged heating in air can burn carbon out of the surface. Warping and cracking are possible.There has been quite a bit of discussion on hardening and tempering here at Knots over the years. Click on the Advanced Search button, select Find Messages Using the boolean expression, and enter this string in the search box. As you read these messages, you may see other recurrent words to search for.(harden OR hardened OR hardening) AND (temper OR tempered OR tempering)Here's a Google search that shows some promising links.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22hardening+and+tempering%22Machinery's Handbook has 160 pages on heat treating. The Machinist's Bedside Reader series also has a good bit of information scattered through it. The MSC catalog, as I mentioned, has information about hardening the various tool steels they sell.One final thought: You might save time, money, and grief by buying replacement pipe cutter wheels and using them as is or grinding them to the shape you need.
Wood is wonderful, metal is marvelous. Woodworking has always been a sideline of mine while as a shop teacher, I work in a metals shop (among others). One complements the other. Once you begin to understand machine tools, foundry, forging, welding and metalurgy, woodworking machines and sharpening become second nature. To say that one is easier is wrong.
Where are you located. I have most blacksmith tools and decent smithing skills. I can forge weld, braze, mig and arc weld with adequate skill.My forging skills are good. I have basic machine shop tools and some basic skills.I have lathes, and mill and saws and grinders and an amish friend who has most everything else. More importantly, my brother is a toolmaker and blacksmith. What are you interested in most?
Zuge
Zuge,Boy, are you generous!I'm in San Diego, CA. Where are you?-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I am in Wisconsin. Someone below suggested contacting an ABANA chapter near you. That is a good idea.Contact the Smiths there and you will get more advice than you bargained for.
Good luck.
Look up a local ABANA (The Artist Blacksmith's Association of North America, Inc.) chapter in your area. It is amazing the wisdom that old Blacksmiths are willing to share. At the time we joined my Son the drummer was 14 years old and showed a natural abillity to move metal. Older men showed him how to work metal without taking it away from him. Great fun yet complex. Must be a little like that game people play - golf.
Hammersparks.
Edited 3/3/2005 10:34 pm ET by hammersparks
Jazz
I finally remember to look at the book that I wanted to recommend to you. It is "Custom Tools for Woodworking", by J. Petrovich. It was printed by Stackpole books in 1990, and is now out of print. I found it on Amazon at the outrageous price of $47.77 and up for used! (It was $19.95 new) Here is link to it, if you want to read about it. A couple of other books are mentioned in the review as well.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0811722422/qid=1109944505/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1533105-9254225?v=glance&s=books
I attached a couple of photos of the cover, and apologize for the poor quality as I only have a pocket camera with me now. The back cover has an interesting color chart of the various colors the steel will turn when you temper it after hardening it.
The book discusses exactly what you are describing, about how to select steel (new and salvage), anneal it, shape it, harden it, and then temper it. I have been quite fascinated with the process, and made several tools.
Woody
Woody,How extremely generous and thoughtful of you!Thank you,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
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