I’m designing and building a kitchen cabinet for a customer that will include a “country” sink with an exposed front apron (Rohl RC3018). The sink weighs about 135# and the weight is carried by the cabinet. The countertop will be Carrera marble.
I’ve done several sink cabinets and vanities that used undermounted or overmounted sinks and tile or solid surface countertops. This is my first “country” sink and my first marble countertop. Are there any land mines out there that I should be thinking about? – lol
Thanks
Replies
Dave,
There should not be any special problems. I have made a few of these in the past few years. The weight of the sink is carried by a full shelf across the cabinet, and if the cabinet is wide you should add bracing to the shelf wherever the sink will allow. It must not flex at all.
You need to cut access holes in the shelf for drain, etc. Make it a bit oversized in order to give some front-to-back play when installing the countertop and sink.
The top of the sink must be absolutely flush with the cabinet in order to have a good joint with the countertop. This may be accomplished with shimming, but try to get it exactly right. Anything more than a very small shim will expose a gap between the sink and the support shelf.
DR
Thanks DR. I hadn't planned on a full shelf, but it wouldn't be a major problem to do. How about the countertop support? I'm thinking of 1x4 or 1x6 boards across the cabinets (sort of like skip sheathing), but could be easily persuaded to use 1/2" or 3/4" ply. Any thoughts about this?
Also, the sink will have a disposal under it. Since it sits freely in the cabinet, are there any vibration issues to worry about?
Dave,
There are several different schools on the construction of cabinets and support of the countertops. I can tell you how we would do it in my shop, but there are other equally good approaches.
We make the top of each cabinet from 3/4" ply, so that it is a completely closed box. In the case of your sink unit you would jigsaw out a "bay" to allow for the sink, and drill for faucet access etc. The face frame member, commonly 1.5" wide, is glued to that ply top with the protrusion up. Depending on the cross-section of the countertop material, we would use pine strips of the thickness needed to fill the 3/4" gap to the top of the face frame, plus whatever additional might be called for. I have found 3 advantages to doing the face frames upwards like this: 1) If adjustments for levelling are necessary when installing the countertop, height can easily be added or subtracted by changing/shimming the fill strips. If you are laying the counter right on the plywood you cannot lower it if necessary. 2) The space created is enough for most gas hobs to be installed without protruding into the cabinet below them, thus giving a cleaner inside. 3) The face frames are always flush with the inside of the cabinet (on all sides, by the way) which looks cleaner and makes attachment of any hardware simple - hinges, magnetic catches, etc.
If your cabinets are sitting on a strong toekick, then the weight will be transferred without any problem. Be wary of plastic levelling feet sold for kitchen cabinets. If you insist on using them you need a lot to carry the weights involved.
best,
DR
Dave,
I'd strongly advise your client not to use Carrara marble for a countertop. Any marble will stain, especially acidic foods like tomatoes and lemons. True Carrara marble is only used for sculpture and decorative effects, what they sell as Carrara now comes from Greece and Israel, and it's not the same stuff.
I think Corian makes an alternative that would match the look you're going for.
Hope this helps, George
Thanks, George. That's all been said, but their minds are made up. I'll be making the nicest cabinet I can make but the countertop is someone else's problem. - lol
You are correct that anything acidic will attack the marble but there is a siliconised treatment that will protect it -- even against Coca-Cola!
IanDG
You're right, it can be treated, but it needs to be reapplied every 6 months to be effective. How many people remember to do this, or bother to do it? Not many, from what I've seen.
Hmm -- 6 months seems a bit short. We were using the process in Riyadh for crystallino marble [softer/more absorbent than Carrara] and they claimed 3 years.
Is this a wax or liquid treatment?
IanDG
It's a liquid. They suggest you wipe down the countertop with mineral spirits first before reapplying. Kitchen counters get much more abuse than floors, and heat destroys the sealer. The fabricator I work with, International Marble & Granite ( Chicago) has even gone to the extent of not selling marble for kitchens, even for floors.
" has even gone to the extent of not selling marble for kitchens, even for floors."
I agree as far as counters are concerned that granite or concrete are far superior [what idiot first thought of using something as soft as soapstone or limestone for worktops, BTW] but not when it comes to floors. We used a lot of Perlato, Serpeggiante and Carrara for floors, both inside and out.View Image
IanDG
WOW! NICE!
You do that for a REAL Princess?
Sheikh Abdullah bin AbdulRahman bin Adwan and his family. The Palace complex had 49 bathrooms -- every one in marble or granite or both. Click on my tag below if you want to see more.
IanDG
Ian, out of all the places you visited, which was you favorite?
PS...really nice website, very fluid and easy to navigate.
An imaginary land that would have the scenery of New Zealand, populated with Americans and the climate of Melbourne [but a little less changeable]
IanDG
Carrera marble???IT`s a New STONE PORSCHE???( CARRARA MARBLE )
Aha!!! Maybe that explains the dark oily spots on the floor. - lol
Hi Dave ,
I am currently doing a job that has a apron front sink as you describe , it is a different brand but the same idea . As Ring said , I have made a full width shelf under the sink , it sits in a dado on each side and I even cut a dado in the back of the face member under the sink . I allowed the face to stick up about an inch above the feet of the sink .So instead of the shelf being 23 1/4" it is like 23 1/2" , it will also have a back rail to support the back edge , I don't think it will flex at all .As far as the Marble or any other countertop materials , I let the folks who are doing the top dictate the thickness of the plywood deck so as to jive with the edge treatment they will be using . In many cases the decking sits on top of the face and cabinet , so for an under mount application the top of the sink should be flush with the top of the deck some sinks have a rib behind the face on each end , so depending on how much the sink front overlaps the face on each side you may have to relieve or cut slots to fit the shape of the sink.
good luck dusty
Hi Dusty -
After reading some of the replies, I've pretty much decided to make the cabinet as you describe. It's a heavy sucker (137 lbs) with a 1-1/2" thick bowl. The customer has ordered the sink and faucet so I'll wait until they arrive to take the final measurements. I've also asked the customer for the countertop contractor contact info so I can work directly with them.
This customer is one of the "good guys" - he knows what he wants to see when it's all done, but admits that he has no real understanding of what it's going to take to get from here to there. - lol
Hey Dave ,
I don't think you can go wrong by following the spec that the Marble people give you . The one I am doing for some reason the granite people are going to use 5/8" decking , my guess is so the built up edging will cover the deck, makes sense . My client in this case is also a "good guy/gal type " they really don't understand or even try to think about how things will go together , but know what they want and trust me to deliver the goods . These are clients from heaven , money is no object and they are not nit pickers and are easy to get along with, just dosen't get much better than that. This particular sink is a Kohler 22x33 and must weigh at least like your model .
hang in there dusty
If she is 'Well-To-Do" I'd hire her a stone mason from Italy to spent a month with her...
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