From Wired Magazine:
“Jeffrey Wegesin is a furniture maker. His most popular creation is a curvaceous side table, and even though he has sold only two copies of it, he has already turned a profit. He did it without so much as setting foot in a wood shop. And he is not alone. Wegesin is one of 5,000 merchants who have established accounts with Ponoko, a year-old on-demand manufacturing service in New Zealand. Designers upload their blueprints to Ponoko’s servers; when a customer places an order, Ponoko’s laser cutters automatically trim wood and plastic to create the product on the spot. Wegesin, a Web designer, sells the tables through the site for $250, not including shipping. He then pays Ponoko $124 for each table to cover the cost of materials and cutting fees. The $252 he’s brought in so far may not be much, but because he incurred no up-front costs it comes as pure profit.”
I have attached a photo and here’s the link:
http://www.ponoko.com/showroom/rudo/226
Hastings
Replies
It may be profitable but is it woodworking? I shudder at the thought of this being the future of our craft.
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
I thought the same thing after reading these posts. The life span / durability of these cnc products made of veneered MDF are to me one step up from plastic laminate store fixtures. To compare to our craft, is as they say, like comparing apples & oranges.
I'm not sure about the strength of those legs. It appears precarious.
That table wouldn't last 5 minutes in the same room with my nephew.
It instantly made me think of one word......................................Ikea.
That may be the future for cheap, mass produced crap for apartment dwellers on a shoestring budget, but certainly not the future of homeowners wanting custom pieces that will last for generations to come.
As one previously stated, apples and oranges.
Jeff, not sweating the cnc movement for even a millisecond.
Jeff,
It instantly made me think of one word......................................Ikea
Yah, me too..................................................................cardboard
People will actually buy it too! Gotta have the latest gizmo ya know. Then when another gizmo comes out ya gotta have that and throw away the old gizmo.
Kinda like today it's granite countertops and tomorrow............ plastic/cardboard?
Phoooey,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/31/2008 11:53 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
I just had to post on that!. I am new and don't post much, but, I am wondering what holds that THING UP?. Do you use it or just look at it, wouldn't trust it either way. As I stated don't post much, as it seems if you have an opinion, that dosn't follow the set guide lines in here you are in for it. What seemed like a good idea, has beened turned in to a single sided infantile rant. By a bunch of over bearing, pompus A H---'S. I can't remember who said it but the quote was " PUT UP OR SHUT UP!". There for I chose to just SHUT UP!. I will continue to do what works for me and be happy that when I finish a project, it's the best I CAN DO, with my meger tool selection!!.
Edited 3/31/2008 2:26 pm ET by garyowen
gary,
I'm a bit confused by your response. If your reference to PUT UP OR SHUT UP is directed to me (the originator of that discussion) then I must respond by saying that discussion had nothing to do with anyones lack of tools or methods of work.
As for the rant I believe that, at least in my case, the original posters topic depicted what most folks would not consider fine woodworking, that's all. If you think of moi as a pompous a$$ then I really think you misunderstood my intent.
To prove my point I welcome you to my woodshop if you wanna see some meager tools. And I, like you, agree that I will continue to do the best I can with what I have, the same as everyone else in here.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, I am sorry for the confusion, nothing was meant towords you. I didn't remember who posted the comment. But it seems to me, that there are a great number of people here, who have to constantly force there ways of doing things, on others, and that there way, is the ONLY WAY!. As far as meager I fit that catagory, RAS, 1/2" Drill, Router, & saber saw ALL some 35 yrs. old or better, I do own a 3/8 drill, it's new only12 yrs. old ( yes all CRAFTSMAN ) and a ryobi router & table. would like to see your shop some time. I only hope that you will accept my apology. garyowen
Gary, for what it's worth, this is just a discussion forum. Typed words from one stranger to another stranger, and some even as strange as me. In other words, this is not a doctor administering a script: it's just opinions. So, I take everything with a grain of salt, brain-file the things that "seem" to make sense, then move on to the next post.
Bob, very true!. I guess some times it is hard for me to do that. It just seems that some people here, like any other place, have to voice there opinion, on a subject,or a way of doing some thing, louder & longer than nessasery.This should be a place for beginner or experianced, woodworker to come for help & not a lecture on the absolute way it should be. I guess what I am looking for is, a bit more teaching and less preaching. I will try to heed your advice. gary
Edited 3/31/2008 3:55 pm ET by garyowen
Edited 3/31/2008 4:28 pm ET by garyowen
A discussion forum really is not much a "should be" thing. More of an evolution of personalities loosely based around a broad theme. It'll never be what it "should" be because, unless the moderators are heavy handed Hitler types, a forum sort of wanders about.
I've been part of forums that were heavily moderated. They're worse. Half the threads are members chewing out one another because "You've strayed from the theme of the thread, tsk tsk tsk."
One thing any of us can do to lower our blood pressure is to place certain posters on "Ignore", that is, if you can stand the mystery of not reading how they just made an #### of themselves. <g>
I have to step back from things once in a while, take a deep breath, and remind myself, this is a diversion. Nothing more. Cheers.
Bob, I notis you gut wun of dem funne acksents for sum one in the norf east. Thanks for the LAUGH!!, I needed it, I have broad shoulders, so I can balance the burden, I have bestowed, upon our great land. gary
Yep. I'm from sowlf Jerzee, a suburb of sowlf Fillwee. And thur aint nobuddy what called me Bob, since I was ordered to dunk my head in the barrel for apples when I wuz twelve.
Name's Denny. And I do not have a phunney asssent. I might spell phunney, but I doesn't asssent funny.
Denny, I musta gut side tract on duh post, I tot I wer still talkn to Bob up thare at kiddie ville. I should pay more attenshun to the post, but was afraid my cat might step on these buttuns, and send my but to cyber space, never being able to xplain my self. I hope you can speak english when you go to get one of them Philly cheese steaks. gary
C M Craftsman Tools
M R Not
S M R
L I B Them Are Crapsman Tools
Just a little of my wife's Eastern Kentucky Friends diction. Lot of fun and fine people.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Hi Wingdoctor, WOW!, being from the Boston area, where the Revalution started, we call dem fitin werdz!. We all have a cross to bear, some heavyer than others. I have had excelent luck with all of them, the radial arm is checked for square before each use. dosn't take long,and it gives me good strait cuts, on a rip, miter, or crosscut. I know every one has opinions on them, but I must admit ALL WOODWORKING TOOLS ARE DANGEROUS!!. So I follow my own rules, and quit what I am doing if I am having trouble concentrating. We guts funne out here to. gary
I hope you enjoyed the humor. :>)
I have HAD Craftsman tools in years past that I thought were fine, but not in the past 10 years or so. The affiliation with K-Mart can't help either. Yea, I worked for K-Mart as an Area Supervisor for 8 years and watched them go from middle road to p*ss poor about 1984.
The last Craftsman tools I bought were not quality, like they used to be. I guess my real down turning point was the 18v drill combo with light and trim saw that wouldn't hold a charge on either battery for more than ten minutes of use in the drill. And the trim saw might get through a 1 X 12 pine board before dying, maybe. The recharge took 24 hours too.
The DeWalt 18v I replaced it with will run for hours as a drill/ driver on the 1st battery and recharge in less than an hour.
I do have a Craftsman compressor that works fine, so maybe it is just the cordless tools that have dropped so much in quality.
I still have some Craftsman mechanic hand tools but the ratchets are not as good as they used to be either. They will still replace them but the replacements today are very sloppy and loose. And they have started to keep a list, here in Columbus, OH, oh how many times you return a "Lifetime Guarantee" tool for replacement. That's a fact and it came from a department supervisor at Sears when I returned a defective/worn out tool. I've started to replace the worn out stuff lately with Kobalt from Lowe's, my son says they are made by Snap-On, maybe, he's right, and they are tight and do not seem to wear out. At least not yet.
We all make our choices on brands and we all have our own opinions of what is quality and that is as it should be.
Have fun, make sawdust.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Hi, wingdoctor I enjoyed the humor. I see a lot of posts on Sears, the general opinion seems to run that way. To bad, as I say these tools are 12 to 35 yrs old. Sears then carried a large supply of woodworking tools for fairly short money, and good quality. As far as cordless, well I can't say only used one, maybe if they CHARGED it, it may have worked better. I will certainly keep making sawdust. Trying my hand at boxes, I have the sawdust part down pat on those. gary
Speak English / cheese steaks. Ah, you've heard about that, huh? The city of Philadelphia has been trying to shut him down based on that sign. Problem is, every time they approach the issue, his customer base grows and the customers become his allies. Politically correct boolsheet.
Hi blewcrowe, I saw the article on the web. It was my understanding, that there's not much the city can do, as he didn't refuse service on those grounds. I have to back him up, here in MA, we have the same problem. You are correct it is a load of B.S.. I don't belive in hurting people intentionaly, but this P.C. atmosphere has made even saying hello offencive. gary
gary,
I only hope that you will accept my apology
Nah, that ain't necessary, no offense taken here. Sounded like you were a bit ticked off. As for the do it my way thang, there's always some wisdom to be gained.............
And there are some right and wrong ways of doin certain things too. Maybe the presentation sometimes irks ya the wrong way but hey, the bottom line is there is something new to be learned every day, no matter how much experience ya/they have. Even old dogs can sometimes larn new thangs.
Now about them Craftsman tools, especially if they're older ones. By keeping them you do realize that you're going against the grain of the toolaholics don't ya!? Ya don't have the latest gizmatche?
There must be something with ya. Do you realize that you're one of the causes for the bad economy, record snowstorms in the Northeast and all the wars in the world today! Not only that but you use CRAFTSMAN tools!?What is this world coming to.
Pssssssst, don't tell anyone I just bought another one of their 18v cordless drills, OK? You know, the one that comes with the 1/2" driver, another right angle drill, extra battery, charger and carrying case for $99. Hey man, I got two hands ya know!
:>)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/31/2008 3:37 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
"what holds that THING UP?"
When I completed the last dining room table I built, I offered to buy it back from the client so I could use it in my shop as a workbench.
http://flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!2B3CECCE825F255A!341.entry
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
"what holds it up? ". The comment was in regards to the photo, shown in post no. 41075.1. It just seems to me it should need a bit more support at the bottom. It could just be the angle, that makes the legs look so long, and delicate. gary
What holds it up? Precisely cut CNC joints let in at 45 degree angles on the corners of a box . Don't be fooled by the flimsy appearance, I have no doubt, hard wood, using the same geometry would yield a somewhat sturdy more durable table. The whole concept from a marketing standpoint , all to obvious,[the masses] as the price dictates.
With that said, In reference to the second half of your post, I think you might possibly be experiencing some type of anxiety issue. I am not a not an expert this area, but that was scary. Thank God for the internet and distance. You caught Bob {Kidderville acres} off guard . I have no Idea what you are ranting about. I have reread that post a few times , to no avail. I hope all is well .
Edited 3/31/2008 10:16 pm ET by gofigure57
Edited 3/31/2008 10:18 pm ET by gofigure57
What are the square holes in the top for? Benchdogs?
Interesting process. I'd call the end result highly artistic curbside furniture.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hastings,
It seems that I got a bit sidetracked and so I went back to have another look at your original post, especially the picture of the piece. It certainly is a thought provoking piece in its design.
I suspect the execution had clouded my thinking more than the piece itself but there is little doubt that the design is intriguing. Thanks for posting it. To tell you the truth it inspires me to expand my horizons. I'd really like to see the piece made more traditional ways and not manufactured with laser cutters, etc.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Like it or not, advanced cutting methods and CADCAM processing is going to become bigger in woodworking. Not necesssarily among the true woodworkers like those on these forums, but there will be strictly product-driven people like this guy. And no doubt there'll be more intricate items like this. I thought CompUCarve was bad enough, but it's probably just the start.
Yeah....IKEA. No doubt Pottery Barn will ove this idea.
Me, I still like sawdust on the floor and the smell of fresh cut walnut.
And Gary.....just put down the meth pipe and back away.
This laser cutting thing has been around for quite a few years. Back in the early 80s my wife and I bought a solid oak dining room set from an unfinished furniture store in Nashua, NH. The chair crescents were laser cut and had laser etched designs on them.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thank you for the interesting replies. Apart from the slight digression in the middle of the thread, there are really two separate ideas emanating from my original post. One concerns the methodology of production and the other the design and its structural integrity of the example piece.I thought members of the forum would be particularly interested to see how computing and manufacturing technologies are advancing into the furniture market. For the hobbyist, it doesn't really matter; but, for professionals it might be cause for concern.Remember that disruptive technologies are, in their infancy, always inferior to the state-of-the-art technology. Horses were more reliable than early motor cars, mule-driven ploughs superior to tractor-pulled ones and so on and so forth.I don't know if this will be a disruptive technology, but two boards joined by hand-cut dovetails can be replicated by modern five- axis machine cutters. Yes, of course something has been lost, but will that loss matter to the market? Our technical progress brings many marvelous things, but these benefits are not free, depending on your point of view. For example, the industrialization of agriculture gives us cheap and plentiful food but in comparison to local, seasonal produce it lacks flavor and true freshness I never seem to find a truly delicious peach - even at Fresh Market). THe proliferation of iPods has created a generation that has never heard high fidelity recordings and doesn't seem to care!The technology itself is not inherently evil – it is what it is; but, I would not be too quick to dismiss the effect of the exponential increase in computing capability (Moore's Law) and woodworking. So while the Compucarve looks awful today, it's future generations might be frighteningly good and relatively cheap.
Hastings,
lacks flavor and true freshness
Kinda like the clean fresh lines of a handcrafted piece of furniture? Whi knows, maybe all this new fangled technology will actually end up enhancing craftsmanship..................
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
A while back I read that to get the same nutritional level from a head of lettuce from the 50's, you'd have to eat 20 of today's.
Anyway, I think the explosive growth of computers and the associated technology has sharpened the "old versus new" contrast over earlier generations. During my corporate careetr in the steel industry I bridged the gap between the old oxyacetelyne cutting methods and, in the last outfit I worked for, water-jet cutting. Amazing leap in technology.
I do this for a living and I doubt I'll see much incursion of advanced CNC tech in the kind of work I do, since I'm well into the back 9 of life. But I do find it exciting when I consider what I can dream up in my head in terms of design. Sure would be nice to go to the shop with an idea and just hit the CNC switch to produce it!
Yeah, the piece does look sort of flimsy, but people won't be eating family dinners on pieces like that. It will likely rest in a home where only the cleaning lady will have to worry about actually touching it.
Now I'll just wait for the call from someone who says "I just saw this table at Pottery Barn and wondered if you could make one. They sell it for $295....."
Ah well.....
I think where people go astray is when they try to use new technology to slavishly do old things. 3D CAD/CAM isn't likely to ever make a reasonable facsimile of a Chippendale chair. Conversely, 3D CAD/CAM opens entire new avenues of design and manufacturing techniques.
The answer to the question, "I just saw this table at Pottery Barn and wondered if you could make one. They sell it for $295....." is simple:
"No."
-Steve
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled