Replies

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Jan 14, 2003 02:04am | #1

   I'm guessing you mean 4"x12"x48".   In the San Francisco area, madrone runs around $5/bdft at retail.   But there isn't much of a market for it, so the price really turns out to be whatever you and the seller can agree on.

   Madrone is pretty, but it does have high expansion rates -- roughly twice that of oak -- which may be why there isn't a big market for it.

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 14, 2003 08:29am | #2

   One thing I've noticed about Madrone is that it rarely, if ever, grows anywhere close to straight up, which I assume means that there is usually going to be reaction wood within just about any large piece.  I would look carefully at  the end grain and see if the growth rings look fairly even from one side to the other. 

   Even if the piece of lumber looks relatively straight and stable, couldn't it be that when it's milled, the characteristics could change?  Maybe Jon Arno can chime in here.

   PS:  Just took a look in Hoadley's book.  He indicates that in hardwoods, reaction wood can be difficult to detect.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   
   

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   Edited 1/14/2003 12:31:43 AM ET by forestgirl

   
   

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   Edited 1/14/2003 12:36:43 AM ET by forestgirl

1. 
   jonsherryl | Jan 14, 2003 05:45pm | #6

   Forestgirl, sorry that I've run across this thread so late (I'm still not navigating on this Knots board worth a darn.) Anyway, I think Stanley has summed up madrone pretty well. The burl is beautiful, but personally I avoid working with the solid stock, because it's so annoyingly unpredictable...sort of a heartbreaking teaser; looks great, works great, but there's no way to keep it in place.

3. 
   Bengst | Jan 14, 2003 08:45am | #3

   I use madrone in some boxes I make.  I buy it for 3.44 a board foot here in Corvallis OR.  Most boards I buy are no more than 6" wide.  I think I'm the only one who ever buys it though.  They make flooring out of it at the place I buy it.  It's a very hard, fine grained wood.  Forestgirl is right, it is not straight grained at all and moves a lot.  I buy my myrtlewood from another place and they said that that they know a guy that boils his madrone before use to stabilize it.  Not sure about that though.  Lots of reaction wood too.  It can tear out lots since the grain goes everywhere.  I love the color under finish though, grey/pink, fine texture.  Sometimes streaks of brown or orange.

   Jeffrey 

    

   
   

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   Edited 1/14/2003 12:49:09 AM ET by Bengst

1. 
   LeeEschen | Jan 14, 2003 10:48am | #4

   My sawyers have developed a method that works wonders for madrone, but it takes a long time. They dump the logs into their pond and leave them alone for about 8 years. When they pull them out and mill them, the wood dries perfectly flat.

   Beautiful stuff that madrone. I have built a few small boxes with it. It seems that thinner(1/4 or 3/8)/smaller(< 4"x10") pieces are reasonably stable.--

   Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon

   On the Redwood Highway

1. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Jan 14, 2003 12:52pm | #5

   There is certainly a lot of "folklore" and individualized treatments of madrone that I have heard of over the years.

   Ponding  --  two things are likely occurring during this process.  The first is some level of stress relief but more likely, in my opinion, bacteria (potentially both aerobic and anaerobic) get into the log and begin to attack the gelatinous layer (of tension wood cells) and/or open up the intercellular pitting (to facilitate more effecatious drying).  Most individuals who pond madrone logs do it for one year.  Longer would require carrying a whole lot of expensive inventory

   Steaming  --  Mike Milota (OSU Drying Specialist) did some testing of both pre-steaming and post-steaming various charges of madrone.  He did not seem to feel either made much of a difference but I knew of an individual that swore by a 24 hour pre-steaming cycle for 4/4 stock.  To me this made a lot of sense because it would relieve the inherent stresses pre-existing in the wood prior to drying.  And it was something that the old time drying specialist at OSU recommended`for those reasons.

   Neither technique will do much about dimensional movement with varying EMC after kiln drying.  Madrone has a radial shrinkage value (green to oven dry) of 5.4% and tangential shrinkage of 11.9%.  The values for white oak are 4.2% and 9.0% respectively for comparasion.  Thus if you can get quartersawn material, it is advisable.

   Madrone is dense (0.65 sp. gr) which makes it comparable to eastern white oaks and many tropical  hardwood species.  In some cases, as it is of limited availability, it might be wise to consider it as an "exotic" just as you would an imported tropical wood.  I have found that it certainly suffers negatively from the predominant softwood mentality of the Douglas fir region where any hardwood is considered a "junk" species.

   Be aware that madrone is susceptible to blue and grey staining (bacterial infections) and this is considered a defect.  As such, air drying, especially during certain seasons of the year is not recommended.  Madrone is considered one of the very best woods for overall machining results and turning.

   Avoid logs that have marked off-center pith as this indicates a tree with lean (and therein abnormal wood).  

   Well prepared madrone is good wood  --  a major part of the problems associated with it is, in my opinion, with material that has been improperly handled and processed.  If you can find good material, it is certainly worth the extra expense.