I went to Indy this past Saturday to the Martin J Donnelly tool auction and was able to pick up this little gem. It was still pretty expensive to me but I got it for less than what the auctioneer’s estimated value range that was on it. It’s an 18″ Turtleback Emmert’s Patternmaker Vise in perfect condition with no breaks or welds. I’ve seen these go one eBay for over eight hundred bones so I’m pretty sure I got a good deal on it. I was debating on getting a Tucker Vise from Lee Valley but I’ve always heard the Tucker vise was a copy of the original Emmert. Plus the jaws on this are 18″ wide so it may be a better vise anyway. I saw in The Workbench book that Sam Maloof has been using this vise for the past sixty years, so if it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me (I’m one step closer to him. Only have sixty years left to catch up) ; ) …… Now I just need to make the new workbench I so desperately need.
Mike
Replies
I've got a twin. For fun Google "the Iron Hand" Emmert vise. You will be able to type and date your vise. Make your handle out of maple or beech ! Better to break the handle than any of the cast pieces parts. If your lucky the serial # will still be on the top of the front jaw in the middle, good for dating. Mine is a type II serial#7565.
This will make you cry, I picked mine up at a hole in the wall antique store for $85.00. Dare I ask what you paid?
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 3/25/2008 10:00 pm ET by BruceS
Thanks for the advise! I'll check it out. I wish I got mine up for $85.00. I had to outbid another guy and pick it up for $425.00 plus Indiana sales tax and a 10% buyers premium (which angers me). But the tag had it's range for $500 - $1000 and I've seen them go on eBay for much higher than $425.00 so I feel I got a pretty good deal. I was considering selling on eBay and buying the Tucker vise with my profit (if I made money) but I'm not too sure that would be a wise thing to do. I think I already have the "Ace" and I'm not sure it's worth the all risk just to get the 'King" if you know what I mean.
Nice vise, MV, seems like you got a pretty decent deal! Not sure why you'd be angry about the buyer's premium though. Auctioneering is a grind of a profession, and isn't cheap to develop and run as a business. Some are much better than others, obviously, but my favorite auctioneer charges 12% premium. Everyone knows (or should know) before they start the bidding that the premium is part of the deal, and should go into any equation as to what one's "top bid" should be.
The consignor, if there is one for various items, is probably paying 15-35% of the winning bid for his part of the deal, so the buyer is doing pretty OK in comparison, LOL.
My aforementioned favorite has a staff of 8 people or more, at least 5 of them full-time. He catalogs every single item in the auction, gives it a label with a number and description and prints out the catalog, which is provided for free when one registers for the auction. His auctions run from 400-1200 items per. It's extreeeeeemly organized and straightforward, with no shenanigans. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi FG,
So what is the deal with the Buyers Premium? Some auctions I go to have them but some don't. I figure the auctioneer is going to take a percentage of the final bid anyway so why tack on another 10%? The only thing I can think of is the auction house charges less of a percentage of the cut to the original owner of the product.
example: Auction House A has no BP and charges 25% of the final bid vs Auction House B charges 15% of the final bid then tacks on the 10% BP to cover his costs.
I know going in about the buyers premium it just sucks having to do the quick calculations in my head that if I want a tool for $80.00, my top bid has to be $70.00 because with the BP and sales tax it takes the final price to $81.90. I guess I'm too prone to eBay but even there I have to factor in shipping.
Nevertheless, going to antique tool auctions is quite fun. You get to see a bunch of rare tools that fetch unbelievable prices. Just Saturday I saw a 10 1/4 C rabbet plane go for $2900.00. Of course the winner paid $3393.00 for it.
Auctions are fun, I used to make my living (such as it was) going to estate auctions and reselling furniture and little stuff (the ubiquitous "collectibles" and decorative stuff). 20-40 hours/week listening to the hyperactive patter, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I think I have a T3.2 according to the website. Not sure if it makes it rare or not. Not even sure what the age of the vise is.
Maybe not cold blood red center rare. But rare enough to make old tool galoots druel ;-)
Have fun mounting it, taking off the outer jaw helps a lot.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
excellent!
Now that's a vice!!
Ron Brese
Thanks Ron! maybe I'll try to make a plane with it ; )
Aww Mike, that is just an old hunk of junk. Send it to me and I'll scrap it out for you. You too Bruce. Just because I am a nice guy I'll send you each one of these when I get your scrap metal cashed in...http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Heavy-Duty-Cast-Iron-Bench-Top-Woodworking-Grip-Vise_W0QQitemZ250229359595QQihZ015QQcategoryZ88440QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Take note of the description, it's precision crafted. You know it doesn't get any better than that.
Rob
hhhmmmm that sounds like that might be a good deal.... mine doesn't say it's precision crafted.. i'll have to think about it and get back to you.. Thanks for your kind generosity...
mike
Mike,
Whatever you do don't try to make a plane outa that vise. The blade will cost ya more than the vise! And it'll be so big that you will be limiting your market to guys like Samson!
:>)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
You gotta good point Bob. I don't think the cast iron will hold a good edge anyway. Thank you for your wisdom o' wise one.
Mike, congrats, it's a beauty and will be very useful. I just mounted a clone and these are the lessons learned.
1- true bench top thickness needs to be 2 1/2 to 3" minimum-and heavy.
2-remove the front face, lead screw and mortise in the hinge assembly, then working with the bench top upside down start fitting the round collar into the bench top bottom using carbon paper to see where the fit rubs. Keep grinding or chiseling till no more carbon paper marks show up when you slam (gently) the collar assy on the bench bottom with the carbon paper in between. When you see carbon paper marks keep cutting- you will have a large pile of chips on the floor.
3- when the square shank lays on the bench bottom, mark it's space out with a sharpie marker and router out the trough using an edge guide or a batten and two clamps then check it all with more carbon paper.
4- go find a strong friend and turn the bench top up right and assemble the vise and it's adjustment locks.
5- go make a fresh pot of coffee, sit and stare at it and smile.
Enjoy, Paddy
Thanks for the tips Paddy, I printed them out to keep. I do need to make a new bench anyway which is why I bought the vise in the first place. I haven't planned the overall dimensions of the bench but if you say the top needs to be at least 2 1/2"- 3" thick then that's what it'll will be. I'm considering making the bench out of red oak instead of hard maple because I figured it might save me some money. Are there any downsides of using oak instead of maple for a bench?
That is one serious vice. Be sure to make a bench that suits!
I have the Yost version of the same vise, (you don't see many of them), it was in brand new condition and I bought it at a barn sale for $50.00, best tool purchase I ever made, it still makes me smile. I mounted mine on a 3” thick maple bench top with a John Nyquest style tail vise. Both of Taunton’s workbench books have very good instructions for mounting one of these with some great pictures. I lined the faces with leather applied with contact cement.
Hi Napie,
Leather lined jaws sounds like a good idea. I will do that once it is mounted.
mike
Congrats Mike, you will love the vise.
I'm sure you already know, but that model Emmert is nick named a Turtle back, (for obvious reasons).
Paddy's advice is sound. I have mounted a number of these critters over the years, and although a chore, the advantage that this vise has over any other vise puts it in class by itself and makes the toil well worth it. Hard maple or equivalent is almost a must due to the fact of how thin the meat of material needs to get down to in the cove cut to allow for the collar area.
Another technique in mounting the vise is to allow the front apron of your bench mold itself to the shape of the vise by leaving a gap where the 90 degree hinge is. This technique saves a little work in stock removal of the bench, bolsters the area around the vise and allows the distance from the rear jaw to be decreased. That way if you decide to implement a sliding board jack the gap between the jack and the bench apron is decreased. (a problem inherent to these vises). I can explain further if you like.
In the March/April 2003 issue of FWW there is an excellent example of a rock solid bench by Jon Leppo that does these vises justice.
Enjoy the vise, truly a wise purchase.
Thanks Patternmaker, I'll scroll through my back issues to check out the article. I'm not sure how long it will be before I start building the bench as I still have to make my wife the rest of the dining room furniture but at least I have plenty of time to do research as to the best bench I could make.
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