Good Evening,
I have a few extra dollars and was looking at the Lie-Nielsen Progressive Pitch Saw. I already have the regular LN dovetail saw but have troubles starting that saw sometimes. I was just wondering if this saw has advantages over the regular dovetail saw. I did search the archives here, but there wasn’t a definative answer. Can I have your opinions on this saw? Are there advantages to a progressive pitch saw? If so, what are they?
Thanks,
Jeff
Replies
I played with this saw and I didn't love it. I'm not sure what the idea is with this particular saw.
The advantage of a progressive pitch saw is that it starts easily, then becomes more aggressive as the stroke finishes. All of my long saws and some of my long back saws are both progressively pitched and raked. You can also use the part of the saw that's toothed for the job at hand. If you are finishing a long rip operation for example, and you've got a little corner left, if you hit that with a 4ppi tooth you're just going to split it more times than not. Fortunately, my 4ppi saw has like 6-7ppi at its toe. So i can just zip that last bit with the toe.
Not sure why you'd do this to a 9" saw though. Or at least, why isn't it 24ppi to 16ppi. 9ppi is good for thicker good. In this case, if you had a 7/8" thick carcass, this saw would be a better choice than the normal DT. But 9ppi is a little too coarse and a longer back saw would be a better solution.
I think LN had a good idea (applying ancient saw wisdom to one of their saws). I just think they applied it to the wrong saw. If you've got extra cash, buy the longer DT for carcasses. That saw wold be a better candidate for a progressive tooth.
Adam
Hi Adam,
Do you resaw often by hand? What widths and lengths and types of wood? I recently resawed three feet of 10 inch walnut with a bow saw and it took me several hours spread out over too many days with lots of procrastination in between. Is this to be expected? Are there tricks you employ?I'm saving for a band saw next year, but between now and then I'll be doing a fair amount of resawing by hand, and could use some help.
Best regards,
---Pedro
I recently resawed three feet of 10 inch walnut with a bow saw and it took me several hours
Either your bow saw did not have rip teeth, your teeth were far too fine (and possibly mis-set), or both. Don't get me wrong, resawing by hand is laborious, but this sounds like way too much time and effort.
The bow saw does have rip teeth, and I set them myself (maybe that's the problem). I followed Guidice's instructions from his book and pounded out the set, filed the saw, and reset the teeth in the same direction as before but with less set. Perhaps I need to file again, or maybe I should reduce the set to almost nothing, or maybe I've got a bad blade (Putsch). I don't know, but it was pretty painful. How long would you expect it to take you to resaw a similar board by hand?
Thanks Samson,
---Pedro
I have a 14" bandsaw with a riser block. I'd have that three foot board resawed in 2 minutes if I went real slow.
oh, "by hand" you said. I haven't done that recently, so I feel like I may have forgotten the pain somewhat - that said, I can't imagine it taking more than an hour of overall effort.
Did you consider cutting from both sides with the tablesaw? Then you'd only have a couple of inch wide strip to cut in the middle.
That wasn't very nice.Regarding your less sadistic comments: I did consider, and half way through the board I did just that. Of course I don't have a TS either as you well know, but the circular saw did the trick just fine. Where the first half of the board took 4 hours, the second half took 45 minutes or so. Not a linear relationship at all.
---Pedro
Pedro, I actually forgot you didn't have a TS. For a long time when I had a space constrained - mostly hand tool/small power tool shop, I did have a bench top TS that I would haul out to my deck to use. I had an aftermarket drop in table/fence and outfeed table (Rousseau) that made it close to performance of an okay contractor's saw.
Pedro
That stock could resawn in 30 minutes, tops. Most likely 20 minutes. A rip bowsaw is essentially a big-a$$ed bandsaw. It comes pre-loaded with resaw blade in effect.
The more you force a bowsaw the slower it cuts. Let the saw find its own way - light grip is essential and just let 'er rip (sorry for the pun).
You sure the teeth were pointing forward?
I could have used a crosscut Disston panel saw and resawn the board you mentioned faster than you did.
Something sounds seriously amiss. Some sort of problem with the saw perhaps. If you were fighting it trying to keep it on the cutline that might explain a lot. These saws will track a line like a train but not if the set is screwed up. Guidice is right - you don't need much set.
The Putsch did not need any of its set removed. They do arrive, in the box, with the right amount of set for hardwood. ECE bowsaw blades (better overall and the frames are MUCH better than Putsch) arrive with too much set for dry hardwood. The easiest, most fooproof way to fix the ECE is to peen out ALL of the set and re-set it. The Guidice method of making a light tap and attempting to take out just the right amount of set is misguided IMO unless you can tap a hammer with the exact same amount of force over a hundred times in a row. If you can't, you get a saw that will be mis-set.
Edited 2/28/2008 2:31 pm ET by BossCrunk
Boss,
I'm relieved to hear that something is seriously amiss. I couldn't imagine that this was normal. The teeth were pointing forward :) I'm not that green, I held the handle gently and had reset the saw (with a saw set) after peening out all the original set. The thing tracks like it's on rails. I bought the saw used on ebay, and my guess after hearing yours and Samson's comments is that I did a poor job of sharpening it. I'll try again, more carefully this time and see how it goes.
Best,
---Pedro
I've started a cut more than one time with the teeth pointing the wrong way. Bowsaws look the same coming and going.Gotta believe it is still something beyond just being dull.
Really? My bow sow looks very different coming and going. The teeth are pointed vertically down on one side and at a 45-60 degree angle on the other.
I meant the frame - easy to grab from the wrong end - at least the ECE that I have is.
You may be on to something. I didn't know there was a right end. Seems pretty symmetrical to me. Can you explain? Thanks.
---Pedro
Pedro, you're over thinking this. Boss just means that because apart fromt he blade, a bow saw looks the same from both sides, it would be easy to pick it up and start using it without checking the blade orientation.
Oh, I thought we were on to some mystery. I understand which way is forward on the blade, and hold it so as to cut on the push stroke.I guess that leaves us with dull blade, or weak arms, or both.
Thanks gentlemen,
---Pedro
Last summer I needed to rip some free 10" x 10" by 6' framing timbers for a project and just used my good old Disston rip saw (too big to fit through my bandsaw). It took about 20 to 30 min. to complete each cut sawing at a reasonable pace so as to not give myself a heart attack (told my wife if I sawed like that every day I would get into good enough shape to be able to saw like that every day). Hand ripping large stock like that has to be one of the least fun aspects to woodworking.
If you're going to be doing alot of resawing by hand you might want to consider making yourself a frame saw. I haven't used one in decades, but think it is easier to control and stay on the line than using a bow saw for thick rip cuts like you described. Here is a website about making one of the type I have in mind. http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3
Can't comment on the progressive pitch saw, but maybe I can help with your problem starting the DT saw.
The starting problem is usually caused by the teeth making indentations in the piece when you try to go too slow at the start, trying to carefully hit a line. The teeth then get caught in these indentations, making things even worse. To prove this, try making a cut in a scrap where you don't try to hit a line -- just put the saw on the wood and cut away. You'll probably have no problems getting things started when you try this.
I always told my students that their saws were "too heavy", and they needed to lighten them up, and not let the saw's full weight rest on the piece at the start of the cut. And then, once the saw is positioned, take one quick, light push to get the kerf started. After that, it's easy.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Check out Chris Schwartz' review here:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/dovSaws/dovSaws-1.asp
I have the regular LN dovetail and find that by lifting the saw a bit before beginning the first push stroke I have no problem starting the cut.
Best,
---Pedro
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