Anybody have anything on this?
I’m not interested in the pros or cons of any other planes for the purposes of this question but
I have an opportunity to purchase a bronze LN 4 1/2 smoother.
It weights about 7+ lbs. vs the 5.5 lbs. iron version.
If cost/appearance/staining… (they do look nice) were not a criteria, and you did a lot of figured panel work, many times for hours, which direction would you lean?
7+ lbs. or 5+ lbs.?
Thanks
John
Replies
I think it just boils down to personal preference.
Heavier planes seem to have momentum on their side - a good thing in certain circumstances, but there comes a point of diminishing returns as far as having to lift and push the thing (as you note).
This what I'm thinking also
Thanks,
John
You have to remember when and what you will be using it for. (I know, I know, don't end a sentence with a preposition!) With the 4 1/2 smoother, you are only using it for the final smoothing, where weight is a plus. You aren't going to have to push it around all day.
This my concern. The panels are usually all in final state only needing smoothing and there are usually a lot of them (quarter paneled rooms/coffered ceilings etc.) hence the question of weight. Thanks for your input
John
OK, then where should that preposition be at?
Preferably, before "he's a jolly good fellow."
Where at?Do you have a few years to study this?http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors
Jimma,
"where should that preposition be at?
Behind the at, of course.
Ending phrases with prepositions is the sort of impertinance, up with which, I will not put.
Ray
Who but the creakingly ancient remembers Churchill? But he was right. [Never start a sentence with a conjunction.] What's such a stupid rule good for?
Jim
A heavy smoother is preferable for use on hard and difficult woods-just try working Burmese teak or similar with a light plane.
Lie Nielsen use manganese bronze for that plane not LG2 bronze which is soft. Manganese bronze is hard and hard wearing-better than the so called ductile cast iron.Philip Marcou
there probably is better value for your dollar with another smoother but the way the price of those anniversary ones keeps going maybe it is a good investment they are all pushing a thousand now, buy low sell high :)
Did I miss a memo? I'm under the impression that the 4 1/2 is available with a ductile Iron body only.
This is from a private source. Just an earlier plane that was never used.
John
I have the bronze #4, and the iron 4 1/2. Heft is a large advantage with the bronze vs. iron. Also, bronze doesn't rust.
The bronze plane (at least my 4) does leave the occasional bronze colored smear on the wood if I push down too hard.
Those bronze 4 1/2's are an anniversary edition, and are quite expensive. I saw one on ebay a short while ago sell for over $700.00, which is comical to me. I guess it really depends on what you are paying for it.
I'd pay up to $100 extra for the bronze version, but that'd be it. After that, I don't believe the extra heft warrants any additional dollars.
My .02, and I use them daily,
Jeff
My first bench plane was/is a #4 Bronze. At first I was getting a little staining but after using it a little plus waxing the sole it seemed to go away. I personally bought for both the extra weight and the appeal of being bronze. If you can get the 4-1/2 at a decent price I think it would be worth it in again both the weight and the bronze appeal with being a little rare on top of that. Just my 2 cents.B.Kidd
Jeff,
I wouldn't pay that either. This is from an estate. a private source and it's a good price. Not an anniversary model.Thanks, John
Then I'd buy it.
Enjoy,
Jeff
This is from an estate. a private source and it's a good price. Not an anniversary model.
Your first post stated it is bronze, and it is a 4 1/2. If it is bronze and it is a 4 1/2, then it is an anniversary model.
See this link:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=4_5bronze
Lee
Perhaps it is then. The asking price (if what others have indicated is true) doesn't seem to reflect that. The model doesn't concern me as much using a heavier plane all day does.
Thanks
johnEdited 1/7/2008 4:05 pm by boilerbay
Edited 1/7/2008 4:19 pm by boilerbay
A bronze 4 1/2 went for over $1k on ebay a week or two ago. I would probably buy it for anything under $750 and decide later, $650 if it has been used.
Thanks to all for your input. I'll give the bronze one a go.
John
A 4 1/2 bronze at an attractive price, it's a no brainer. Buy it ASAP.RonIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
I did. $450.00 plus shipping.
It may not be of any interest to you but the 4 1/2 does have a 50 degree high angle frog availabe which is nice for figured work. I assume this part will fit the Bronze version If it something that may want in the future you might check with LN to see if it does fit the Bronze version.
Thanks,
I was aware of that and had thought if I end up with the iron due to weight, I would try it.
John
If cost/appearance/staining... (they do look nice) were not a criteria, and you did a lot of figured panel work, many times for hours, which direction would you lean?
7+ lbs. or 5+ lbs.?
Hi John
I own and use the bronze Anniversary #4 1/2, and I had the loan of an iron #4 1/2 for over a year. Used the two side-by-side for some while.
My preference is the iron #4 1/2.
Why? Because I like low centre of gravity planes. I also like heavy planes (that suck onto the wood). I have planes that are heavier than the Anniversary bronze. But the extra weight on the AB seems to leave it less well balanced than the iron version. I like the bronze plane,and use it often, but it lacks a feeling of delicacy (if I can call it that in planes of this weight). Of course,as the memory of the iron plane fadesinto the distance, so the bronze feels better and better. Side-by-side can be a limiting experience.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Another consideration is that the bronze won't rust like the iron will which might be a reason to get the bronze if you live in a very humid area or plane wood on your boat near the water:) Great planes either way.
Troy
Valid observation!
As a matter of fact.... it is just a touch humid here. I live and work 900 feet from high tide on the Pacific Ocean. It takes a while for sticked wood to get down to 6-8% :-)
Rust has bothered a few people here. Not as much as their web feet and the moss on their..... But the rust, well it just makes them look a little bit ruddy.
Seriously, if you look after your equipment here, rust is not an issue.
But we do dress all the tools in Grunden's Crab Clothes. If it's good enough for the "Deadliest Catch", it's good enough for the sharpest tools!Now the boat... that's a different story. I can't seem to get the hang of how to plane aluminum welds.John
Aluminum welds, shame on you you should be using wood, hemp rope and pine tar:) Good luck Troy
You've received 22 e-mails for your question. I haven't read all, but I'll offer my two cents. First the extra weight does help. Second, the bronze is more stable than the cast iron. I know this may sound crazy, but the movement of cast iron over the life of the plan is significant, and I for one do not care to re-lap plane soles more than necessary. However, bronze wears faster than cast iron and this may lead to more distortion in the sole than the movement of the cast iron. Pick your demon.
The iron-bodied Lie-Nielsen planes (and Lee Valley planes, too) are made with ductile iron, which is supposed to be more resistant to warpage than other types of cast iron.
-Steve
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