I’m more of a Finish Carpenter than a dedicated furniture maker, and really have no use for Planes. I’ve owned only two–a block plane and a hopeless new Stanley Plane that I have never gotten to work very well. I do own several electric planes for door hanging, but I won’t count those.
Yesterday, I received a 4.5 Lie Nelson Plane and I must tell all of you that my experience with the ordering and the actual Plane was nothing short of amazing. Ordering was easy–I got a salesman on the line while I was on their Web Site and we ran through the planes and I what I needed from the tool. We settled on a 4.5 based on the Golilocks theory (too hot, too cold, just right).
It was shipped same day and arrived within 5 days. Beautifully boxed, and wrapped with a smaller box that I will save and store it in, until I get some Plane socks.
The tool cut like a hot knife through butter, and produced paper thin shavings that I could see through on the first try. The Plane has a heft and feel that is incredibly comfortable. This tool is one of the finest hand tools I have ever owned.
I hate my jointer–I am always adjusting the knives and it produces a wavey cut as opposed to dead flat–and am eyeing a great big jointer plane from Lie-Nelson.
My new Stanley Plane is junk. The frog does not adjust very well, and it does not stay parallel to the mouth. It takes about 30 minutes to get it right because it moves around so much, and is not in slots or gibs like the Lie Nelson. I’m going to try to get it to work tonight again, but alas it may be junk.
Just wanted to share.
Regards,
Scooter
“I may be drunk, but you’re crazy, and I’ll be sober tomorrow.” WC Fields, “Its a Gift” 1934
Replies
I had a Stanley plane that was junk but I read a bit about planes (David Charlesworth books) and then flattened the sole with from 120 grit wet and dry down to 380 grit , put a hock blade and chip breaker ( these probably cost the same as the Stanley plane!) I now have a plane that is great for the initial planing of rough boards. I am very soon going to buy a LN #4.
I don't have a jointer, I use a router table with a straight bit for getting the edges straight, It is much easier than a jointer as the board lays flat. I have a fence with an outfeed set 1/32 from the infeed fence.
Sincerely
Amen brother, all that I have so far are an absolute joy to use
neil
I often use both the jointer and a hand plane. The jointer is very fast and good at making a square straight, albeit wavy, edge. A few passes with a plane takes the milling marks out and is much easier way to get a "sprung" edge joint. I have 3 LN's - #4, L/A adj. Block and small rabbet. I also have Stanely "Bailey" #5 and #7 which are excellent. Altough I don't have one the top of the line Stanley Bedrocks are highly regarded. For your second LN I'd recommend the Low Angle adjustible mouth block plane. It handles end grain like nobody's business.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
I use $30 wood hand planes. They do as good of a job as the expensive planes.
I expect it is as much the man as the plane.
I use $30 wood hand planes. They do as good of a job as the expensive planes.
I assume that you've done a side by side comparison?
Buster2000 wrote "I assume that you've done a side by side comparison?"I indeed have.If you would like me to repeat my comparisions, send me planes you wish me to compare to those I have.
Edited 12/6/2005 5:49 pm by GHR
Absolutely, especially when smoothing fenceposts in a sandstorm.Philip Marcou
Now thats funny..........
<
<Absolutely, especially when smoothing fenceposts in a sandstorm.
Philip Marcou>SNORT!!!!aloha, mike
'got my first "real" plane in the mail myself; a L-N 60 1/2 R low-angle rabbet plane. Oredered it at the recent PDX woodworking show. 'sure is nice to hold in your hand.
I figured I could get a second blade and sharpen it for standard angle (at the recommendation of the L-N rep.), to form an "introductory" set of plane components.
Be aware, you have done a bad thing for your finances. This will not end, you will buy more L-N planes. I was sure I “just needed a good smoother”, well…… I’m a VERY strong proponent of used tools, I have dozens of used Stanley, Buck, etc chisels, and a lot of older planes, but those L-N’s are just about perfect. My 4 ½ high angle made short work of a very figured cherry table top last week, and made it FUN!
The L-N #7 Jointer was the second plane I bought. Yea, it's spendy but I now have no desire to ever own a power jointer. Geting a straight edge and flat surface with this tool is a hundred times more satisfying and a thousand times safer than a power machine.
Plus you never find yourself coughing up handfuls of paper thin curly shavings.
Chris
You will, if Tim Burton makes the movie. :)
You might also want to take a look at the new Lee Valley Bevel-Up Jointer plane. It's a very nice plane and less money than the LN. The only thing about it that I don't like as well as the LN designs is the mechanism for adjusting the mouth opening, but it's still a sweet plane. I'm not trashing LN. I have 7 or 8 of theirs and love them, but LV's new planes are just as nice IMHO.
Waddaya mean it wont fit through the door?
Just to add to the thread, you will buy more LN planes! You just won't be able to help your self...! You will find that they work even better once you put a really good edge on them. They come from the factory as good as I've seen but a little time with the stone and they really take a fine edge. I can take curls on hard maple so fine you can read through them with my 4.5.
<Just to add to the thread, you will buy more LN planes! You just won't be able to help your self...>addictions are like that and for this one there is no 12 step program.... aloha, mike
I just went and got a 4 1/2 today. Gosh it feels great in my hands. My other planes are a new Stanley block plane, and an ancient (rusty, not yet reclaimed) Stanley jack. I think LN will be getting a few more chunks of dough from me in the future. :)
> I think LN will be getting a few more chunks of dough from me in the future. :) <
Wouldn't the Shepherd Tools guys have a great business if they had customer satisfaction like this!?
Malcolm
http://www.macpherson.co.nz
I have a L-N #4 and have used both the LV low angle and the bevel up smoother. All are really excellent planes. The big advantages with the low angle planes are that you have control over the iron bevel angle simply by re-grinding or having additional irons. You cannot decrease the effective cutting angle on a common pitch bench plane. Throat adjustment is easy, sure beats the frog - depth dance you have to do with a bedrock. The LV bevel up smoother is a little wider and heavier than the low angle smoother and really excels at smoothing, especially with a 50 to 55 deg effective cutting angle. 0.001" with virtually no tear-out on birds-eye maple. The low angle smoother is a little more versatile having surface ground cheeks but not quite as solid.John.
Has anyone had head-to-head comparisons with the Lee Valley Veritas planes? Or are there any threads to good tool reviews? Their concept seems good - and, of course their price is great. I've become a great fan of Lee Valley and their service and wonder if the quality extends to their planes.
Jerry
I have some of each. 2 LN blocks, and a 4-1/2; a Veritas scrub, LA jack and LA Smoother, and block plane.
The Veritas are excellent planes for the money. well made, and well-thought out.
That said, I'm only buying Lie-Nielsens from here on. Their planes are nothing short of incredible. Saws and chisels too.The older I get, the better I was....
It was a "Ray - Boo" moment when I read your post.Ray - You made me chuckle (which is always good!) with the post-script "The older I get, the better I was."Boo - I'm afraid that you convinced me to spend the extra bucks to go LN. Maybe Santa will help.Many thanks,
Jerry
Forget Santa, do what I do:
Sell blood. Twice a day for 2 months ought to do it.
Of course, when you cut yourself with a chisel, only air comes out...
I'm thinking of swapping a kidney for the LN#8.
Probably worth it......The older I get, the better I was....
I like the new 4 1/2 I bought last week so much, I ordered the low angle adjustable block plane today from Woodcraft ($25 off sale). I think I've seen that they cycle through various LN planes, a different one on sale all the time. Maybe I'll get ones I need that way. :)
did you get the high angle frog?
Mine smokes through the knots and makes it shine like a new dime.
Awesome.The older I get, the better I was....
I was actually working some very curly maple, beautiful stuff. The standard frog did OK but I needed to do some scraping. I will say it blew through a very large, tough knot without testing anything but my biceps. I was surprised and happy to see I didn't visibly nick the blade on that stuff (I pushed it through at about a 30 degree skew).
That smoother felt awesome, and taking the jointer rippling off the edges took only two passes per edge.
I intend to get the HAF but haven't yet. Do you use a different bevel on your iron for standard and HAF?
no. same bevel angle- factory grind so far. and using the "ruler trick" I guess there's a 1deg back bevel on the blade.
It's the 50deg angle in the frog that seems to make the difference.
I planed some short curly maple lengths and the surface was actually uniformly smooth, no washboard effect. Hit it with oil and whoa, nelly.
Buy the best, buy once. The older I get, the better I was....
What is the ruler trick? I never heard that one .
Its a David Charlesworth tip on sharpening.
after you've honed the bevel up to 8000 grit (or more I guess), you deburr the back with the blade slightly elevated (a small thin metal ruler along the long edge of the stone). This creates a 1degree or so back bevel that is highly polished.
The idea is that the whole back of the blade doesn't need to be perfectly flat and deburred. Just behing the actual edge. It keeps you from having to lap the blade back endlessly, and does a great job on the blade.
It was featured in a past FWW, I think it was #169- gotta check at home.The older I get, the better I was....
I must say that "ruler tip" is something I have not thought of trying-mainly because once the back is flat and shining there is not much to do.
So now the question is "what effect will a 1* back bevel have when the blade is used bevel up?"Philip Marcou
Next to nothing in terms of effective cutting angle. The big advantage is that the abrasion to the back surface produced through use is quicly removed restoring the fresh polished back surface to the edge. Removing this abrasion by conventional lapping of the whole back surface is very slow.
John.
Philip
The method of final honing on the back of the plane blade using a ruler to give a slide back bevel is not designed to change the cutting angle, it was thought out as a way to save time sharpening. I must say, since I've adopted it's use, my sharpening time has gone way down. Let's face it, once you've flattened the back of the blade once, why polish the bottom inch. The only place where it matters is at the intersection of the front bevel and back. By using a ruler, and creating a small back bevel of say, 1mm, it only takes about 10 passes on the stone every time I sharpen. I've noticed no drop off in quality of cut, or an increase in frequency of sharpening.
Don't do this with your chisels. Just plane blades. By the way, I know you already know this stuff, I just felt like typing. LOL.
Jeff
Er, thanks for that Jeff. I will add it to my store of useful information rather than my mythology catalogue.
The trusty Eclipse guide is in the way, but I have an idea in the oven.Philip Marcou
Jeff- do you use your antique planes? If you do, what do you do when you want to replace the blade? I have some moulding planes that I would like to use, but either the blade is really thin or I just want to keep them original, in order to not be in a position of not having a blade at all.I just picked up a Stanley Bailey #4 (in pretty decent shape- looks square, flat, blade is sharp, adjustment is very easy and not dinged up at all. I also picked up an Ohio Tool Co plane, similar size, no wedge but in decent shape and the blade is pretty good on that one, too. It has a bit of curve to it, so it was either used as a scrub or sharpened it by hand and wasn't great at it. I tend to think it was used as a scrub since the curve is pretty consistent and the bevel is fairly even across the width.Nice job on the mantle/bookcases, BTW. Now I know why you weren't sure if you would have any maple leftover.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh my man:
How's it going. I used to use my Bedrock's a lot, but now, the only 2 that I use are the 603 and the 604. I have a LN plane in every other size, and the smoothers are the only one's that I use in quantity to avoid having to stop to sharpen every 20 or 30 minutes. I have the original blades for all the Bedrocks, but keep them in storage. I replaced them with Hock blades, which are much thicker and better. In my 604 1/2, I stepped up to the plate ($$$$$$$$$$$), and bought a Holtey blade. I must have been on qualudes for spending the money. It's nice, but not THAT nice. Most of the blade makers have replacement blades for most of the planes these days. As far as the old woodies go, I never use my old moulding planes anymore. I have the original blades for them all, or I wouldn't have bought them. The four from my grandfather are going in a display case, never to be used again!
Thanks, regarding my latest job. I actually do have some maple left, but it has a lot of brown streaks running through it. I'm going to make a lot of cabinets for my shop, and I'm going to use it for that.
Jeff
Edited 12/10/2005 6:50 pm ET by JeffHeath
I'm planning on buying a LN jointer plane. Which do you all recommend? The #7 or the #8? The #8 looks great, but I will probably need to join a gym before I can push it across a board.
Brings to mind my father in law. He works in construction, shoveling concrete, etc. 8 solid hours a day (he's not a guy to stand around leaning on a shovel, holding the ground down). I think he thinks the idea of "exercise" is silly... if you want to get strong, WORK. :)
I had the same quetion when I bought my jointer last year. The L-N rep on the other end of the phone said the #7 far out sold the #8, so I opted for the #7 and have no regrets. I've jointed boards up to six feet long, and got an absolutely invisible glue line.
Chris
Thanks Chris. You've got to hand it to LN for recommending the less expensive of the two planes. How often does that happen?
The #7 has a few more tricks up its sleeve than first meets the eye... When used in conjunction with the other planes sharing the 2 3/8" blade, a spare cambered blade can be fitted to any of the 4 planes in the range. Likewise with a high angle frog... 4 planes plus 2 interchangeable options = 16 permutations... talk about versatile.. ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Do L-N vendors sell the #4 with the HAF, or is an "add-on"? It sounds like many are happy with that setup.
WoodCraft, anyway, doesn't sell the high angle frog (HAF), but you can get it from LN even if you buy your plane elsewhere.
I have a LN 4 1/2 Smoother with York pitch that I bought from Fine Tool Journal- 280 USD (about $20 less than list):
http://www.finetoolj.com
You should be able to buy the YP outright, not just as an add-on.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Yes those "reviews" have been written and are on web sites all over the Internet. In this case I suggest you depend on Fine Woodworking, Popular Woodworking or one of the other reputable magazine who have strict policies about writers, reviews and payola. You may just find Internet based "reviews" are little more than infomercials and about as objective as a tool company catalog. This digital brave new World may not be as ethical as one might hope, check out the authors as thoroughly as you do the tools.
if it's tool reviews for L-V planes you're lookin for... try these...
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2054
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
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