Spring approaches and now the ladywife has a lovely allotment in the village, where she is growing healthy fruit & veg. Her plot also has a fine new wooden shed, inclusive of a verandah and storage area.
I have this vision of sitting on the verandah astride the shaving horse, fashioning chair parts, carved bowls and so forth with drawknife, axe, adz and chisel. A bucolic and romantic scene. Also a handy way to get the shaving horse, steam box and sundry bending jigs out of my overcrowded shed and into hers. Ah ha!
But I need to carry the sharp green-woodworking tools back and forth, as the allotment is deserted at night and so may attract the thieves and varlots. I can find a handsome tote bag but only some of my sharp tools have leather covers to protect their blades (and my fingers).
I have some 2.5mm thick leather, left over from lining vise jaws. My question:
How do I shape leather to fit the profiles of blades such as that of drawerknife and inshave? What is the best method of providing a fastener to keep the leather sheaths, once fashioned, in place?
Thanks in anticipation.
Lataxe
Replies
Lataxe, old man,
Varlots, eh? Haven't heard that word in a while. Guess they still hang about with brigands, skallawags, and rapskallions?
A friend of mine simply folded a longish strip of leather in half (lengthwise) punched three or four pairs of holes in the edges, and ties the edges together, with the edge of his drawknife in the crease of the folded leather. He put an overhand knot around one hole of each pair, to keep the thong from going astray when it is untied.
To "train" a piece of leather to hold its shape, the technique is to first wrap the object being covered in plastic wrap. Then the leather is wetted, and stretched around the object, held tightly in place, and allowed to dry. This works best with vegetable (oak) tanned leather, but chrome-tanned will develop a memory this way too. This is how hand-made holsters and sheaths are shaped to fit a particular pistol, or knife, "like a glove".
Have you considered a nice rosewood, or burr-oak case, brass trimmed, french-fitted and velvet lined, for the genteel transit of your shaves? Brass bail handles, and steel chain to a manacle on your wrist will prevent a cutpurse from making off with it.
Ttfn, (tata for now)
Ray
edit: Craft shops that handle leather working supplies will sell you any number of sizes of snaps, plus the punch and setting tools for installing them, if you want to go that route.
Edited 2/13/2007 2:45 pm ET by joinerswork
Ray, I do believe the Learned Scribe hit the wrong key there: I do not recognise the word "varlot" but I certainly do know the word "varlet".
A varlet is a tea leaf.
Very clever plan , to use shrink wrap/Plastic wrap. It was not around in my knife making days so I used paraffin wax instead.Philip Marcou
Thank you all for the leather-bending advice.
As I have neatsfoot oil once used for the racing bicycle saddle, as well as a fear of rusting the lovely honed blades, I will give Paddy's method a go. This will obviate the need for any plastic wraps, wooden formers and hot oxidising fluid (water) as the blades themselves will be model to the oily leather. (Mmmmm - oily leather)!
The ladywife has shown interest in a hole punch on the grounds she can use such an implement for various gardening and sewing purposes. (Yes, it's a mystery to me too). I will therefore make holes and rivet on press-studs, achieving something of the look of existing leather covers on the axe and french drawknife.
As to the varlets (correct spelling, as per Hizmajezzy) surely they will stand clear when they see me clutching the bag of axes? Despite my generally forgiving nature, guttersnipes and blackguards do not attract my sympathy and will be dissuaded from purloins (or even covetous glances) by suitable brandishments and dark threats. In addition, any lurking gharks or hoos will also be seen off.
Lataxe, whose tools have only one owner and he is a jealous owner.
Good sir, many have said it and I have thought it, but this most recent post moves me to say:
My, you certainly can turn a phrase. Most enjoyable.
I have no leather advice. I have heard in the past that chrome-tanned leather can induce rust on tool steel, but I have no experience with that.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Latax, all of the talk of knaves etc. brings to mind an admonishment from my late old Irish mother when in response to the usual question of an evening" Where are you going?" I replied, to hang out with a crowd of fellows on another street. She responded " their nothin but a bunch of "sleaveenes" beatin the patts(streets) lookin to get into trouble, find somthin better to do my son." I my day the only acceptable answer was yes mum, or you would then have a conversation with HIMSELF.
Paddy.
edit
BTW. are there sufficent neats in your neck of the woods to accomlpish this task?pfh
Edited 2/14/2007 10:14 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
Sire, you can shape your leather to fit by soaking in warm water to soften it-then you can mould it to the tool.I suggest you use wooden formers which you will have made in order not to have rusty tools. Mould the leather, then use clothes pegs or spring clamps to keep it in place until the pig is dry. You can then put snap fittings or a timely stitch in strategic places.
Clad in leather apron, mailed chemise, green leather skirt, pointed velt cap mit feather, deerskin moccasins, with polished leather clad tools , striding through the woods you will encounter many willing maidens .
Varlot -- never heard of that one, now harlots (I have heard tell they frequent the block in Baltimore town). Getting the leather wet and allowing it to dry will work, just be sure you allow it to dry completely. Also, leather over wood forms works. I have seen leather allowed to dry, then deep fried (make sure all water is out before frying) and then lined with food grade wax to make very good holders for strong beer. If they will keep beer in, they should keep other moister out for your fine tools.Dan Carroll
ALL,
Let's hope Lataxe is not astride his shavehorse on his return; that could lead to all sorts of issues, not the least of which the varlots might catch up with him.
Perhaps, since he has connections with Axminster, they might supply him, at a considerable discount a life supply of bubble pack.
Who knows, maybe he and PADDYHAT could construct a symphony!
Bob, indulging in a bit of Rothschild.Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Varlet:
Noun
knave, rapscallion, rascal, rogue, scalawag, scallywag, scoundrel, villain - a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately.Interesting what ya learn in this place!!Cheers.
Bro. Froe, I have done many knives in leather as a sailor but by stitching the case ¼ to 1/8" closer than what fits and using neets foot oil (lots of it) saturate the case and keep forcing the tool in till it is a form fit then let it dry. This is the stretching method rather than the shrinking method. It works but takes time but no fear of rust. Paddy
Lataxe,
I would recommend that you cut the leather to the shape of your tool, making two matched pieces, join them, and then dampen well, form onto your tool, and let dry. after the leather is dry, oil it very well, and it will hold its shape, and the oil will protect your tool. When you join the pieces, you may rivet, lace, or sew them together. Be sure to include a welt at the seam,( that is a extra piece of leather, slightly wider than the seam, sewn between the two pieces, that makes for a wear point for your sharp edges. Copper rivets that use a burr (These are saddlemakers rigging and should be available through them), are the usual way to make an axe sheath, sewing or lacing the way for a knife sheath. You can use snaps, thongs, buckles, or whatever to make a closing, I find a thong and a couple of holes to be adequate, but you can be inventive about this. You should use neatsfoot oil, if available, or a mineral oil. Almost any oil except engine oil will work. If you only fold the leather, the sharp tool tends to cut at the fold, and the case doesn't last to long.
I hope this helps
Pedro
Pedro,
"Lataxe,
I would recommend that you cut the leather to the shape of your tool, making two matched pieces, join them, and then dampen well, form onto your tool, and let dry."
I believe he would fall foul of the Occupational Work And Safety Authority if he actually carried out your advice to the letter.Philip Marcou
Don't they call that a codpiece?------------------------------------
"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."---------------Samuel P. Huntington
I suppose so!!!! never thought of that, It'll work, though.
Pedro
Sir Lataxe,
I have rounded up the rest of the Knights:
Sir Reptitious
Sir Cumspect
Sir Tainly
Sir Round
Sir Cumvent
and
Sir Pent.
I asked them about the use of leather to house sharp objects.
They recommend that if you sew the sides of leather pieces together to form a sheath, that you use Kevlar thread. Cotton thread is too easily cut by the sharp objects.
Of course, a better approach (for a woodworker) would be to make sheaths of wood. Just take two thin pieces, and hollow out the shape of the blade to about half the thickness of the blade. Obviously this must be done on two pieces which are mirror images of each other. Carefully trim each to a depth such that when you put the blade inside the two pieces, that there is a nice tight (but not too tight) fit. Then glue the two pieces together. Now you can do some nice carving, staining, finishing, etc, and you will have a much more lasting sheath than one made from the skin of an animal. Such sheaths can be made quite thin and yet be very durable and beautiful.
I don't object to the use of words like knaves and varlots, or even to skallywags, but I am bothered by joinerwork's use of the word "thong". We must remember that it was a thong that got President Clinton in trouble with that intern, Monica Lewinsky, years ago. Ya gotta beware of them thongs.
Y'all have fun, y'hear.
Sir Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
<<but I am bothered by joinerwork's use of the word "thong". We must remember that it was a thong that got President Clinton in trouble with that intern, Monica Lewinsky, years ago. Ya gotta beware of them thongs. >>
Huh?? How did beach foot wear get the President in trouble??? I must have missed that....
:-)
(Still playing with the translation.)
.<!----><!----><!---->
Tschüß!<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->James<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
--A.C. Clarke
James,
"Thong" is one of those beautifully ambiguous words. It refers not only to a type of footware, but also to a very brief type of women's underware. It was the latter type of thong that got Bill's attention.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
<<but also to a very brief type of women's underware. It was the latter type of thong that got Bill's attention.>>
I know: I was being facetious... ;-)
.<!----><!----><!---->
Tschüß!<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->James<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
--A.C. Clarke
I, too, have heard that tools stored in leather rust quicker.
Is there some magic potion to apply to keep this from happening?
Thanks,
Alan - planesaw
Alan,
The answer is oil. It is good for the leather and for the chisels.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
What kind of oil to you use?
Alan - planesaw
Alan,
I have a Marine knife with a leather sheath. I use the same oil that I use on baseball gloves. I bought it at a sports store. It got nice and soft, and stayed nice for a long time. No complaints. I didn't do a study to figure out what oil to use. To me, it was like being at a restaurant, and they serve the food. I don't do a large unbiased scientific study on which utensils to use on which foods. I just wing it. So far, I have gotten most of the food into my mouth. All of this started with Lataxe asking about how to get woodworking tools out of the shop and out into the garden (as I remember). I would recommend a completely different approach. It is fairly easy to make a simple compartmentalized box, and put one tool in each compartment. I believe you saw the one that I made for my bench chisels. I really like the one that the guy had, who taught the class on making the Shaker boxes. All of the chisels and gauges are "sharp end down", in their compartments. A handle is bolted into the two narrow sides. It can be turned around to make a stand so that the tools can be easily taken out and replaced. When the handle is placed so that it is over the ends of the chisels, then the chisels can't fall out. Quite simple. Quite clever. Quite primitive. Quite appropriate. I have been acquiring more chisels and gouges, so I need to make another box. I will make one like the one I just described. Until then, I made a couple of sheaths for my "extra" chisels by taking a piece of wood that is about a half inch thick, a few inches long, and a half inch wider than my chisels. I used the band saw to cut a notch in each, so that it fit snugly over the chisel. This is merely a quick temporary fix which prevents damage as the chisels lie in a drawer.Have fun,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
<<Ya gotta beware of them thongs.>>If she were bewear of her thong, he would not have got in any trouble. It was when she was bewearing it not that things started to go downhill.Andy
Normal process used to be waxed linen thread using blunt maleable needles - pulled through pre cut holes. Can provide more detail if required, but the only tools required really are an awl with a diamond cross section two needles and a pair of medium sized pliers.
If you want to delay the edge cutting the seam put rivets through the seam line every 2-3". This stand off the edge from the seam effectively. Neatfoot will rot natural thraeds faster than you will cut them with a rivited seam. Given that most modern 'neatsfoot' oils are marketed by petroleum companies, there is little advantage aver using the old 3 in 1 if you have some handy. Alternatively, grab a handful of lanolin and put it inside the sheath.
The water mould process works really well and its not hard to protect the tools.
Dave
Patto,
Please educate me a little more. Am I understanding you to say that neetsfoot oil (sp?) is not very good? Please elaborate.
What should one use on leather?
Alan - planesaw
Alan,
Neatsfoot is fine for leather preservation if you dont mind getting dirty hands and clothes - it picks up dirt if put on thickly. These days it is mineral based, so it will also rot the stiching of a sheath over time, perhaps 3-4 years. I would genrally plan on renewing the stichining in stirrup leathers every second year if they are being regularly used. This is a hand job because you use the same holes. Many people I know simply replace the leather every year.
The method I was taught for shaping leather is water before it is ever oiled. This works very well. If you look at he back of a well made saddle (cantle) you can se where the seat is shaped right over the top and fastened under the lining (wih tacks held in the mouth). This leather will - on a good saddle - have a maximum of two darts. The way you do it is to take a piece of bsmooth bone, usually a piece of beef shoulder or similar shape, and work the wet leather until smooth. The initial tacks are put in to get an even rucking like the top of a curtain all the way around.
My feeling is that you could probably shape for a knife more easily over a wooden form with a vacuume lamination kit, might be fun but i dont have one.
dave
I have had good luck with nylon thread, oil doesen't rot that. Nylon thread, or fish line.
Pedro
I understand what you are saying, and except for the difficulty of 'locking off' at the end of the seam it will solve the rotting problem. One of my early 'crafts' was saddlery, and thread is almost as important as sharpening is to this site.
The trade standard is that a saddler takes a bundle of loose fibres and prepares his own thread to a weight suitable for the task. I didn't ever get to that, but do hold several weights and materials of thread. The trade offs for leatherwork are making the holes big enough to take a good sized thread neatly but not so big that they weaken the leather (how big should an M&T be?) you use the largest practical thread to fill the holes because that is the greastest strength, and in the case of bags , saddles etc will to a large extent waterproof the seam. Much more important, and a real risk with thin nylon or fishing line is that thin thread can easily cut the leather during the sewing process. This is particularly the case when pulling up a shaped piece. or pulling heavy leather around a buckle or ring at full thickness. Because of this, hole size is dictated by the thickness of the leather, and spacing by the size.
Being practical - just like woodwork its all trade-offs. You can buy a suitable offcut of leather from a saddler for very little; a diamond awl and proper needles are more important to a good job than the thread. I do like saddlery, but without horses there is a limit to what I need and no market in competition with Indian imports - it is cheaper to buy a new Indian bridle that to get a hand stitched repair for most pony-clubbers.
I agree with you. When I say nylon fish line, I'm talking about 40# plus, or jigging line. neither of these will cut the leather, have absolutly no esthstics, but hold very well. I am in the process of rebuilding an old high cantle western saddle, and use good linen thread on that, because that is what was used to make it. Another good modern thread is dental floss, and we get something up here called synthetic sinew. It is a nylon stranded thread that can be seperated to size. Often I will lace something rather than sew it, which makes many joins easier, and stronger. It is like so many other things, it all depends on the situation.
Pedro
To make sheaths,
why not just use scraps of leather for the front, and wood for that back, and staple the suckers together, with the chisel inside.another idea is to use three layers of leather. The top two are the same size. The middle layer is about the thickness of the chisel and only goes round the outside. Use a hole punch to punch holes along the edge and then use lacing to lace up the device. Both approaches are crude but workable.
If we are looking something that can be submitted to "Fine Leathercrafting Magazine", I'll work on some other ideas. I believe that for having a mobile set of chisels, the best thing is a box with separators, not sheaths. It can be made by a newbie in fifteen minutes. (One hour for a really fancy box.) A carved box would require another hour.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Be good to see a picture when finished.
Have you tried kangaroo hide lace? stongest leather for its weight in the world and very easy to use.
Dave
Patto,
I have never had the pleasure of using kangoroo, hard to find in the frozen north (-38c this morning). but I have always been impressed with how tough horse hide is, and also dog skin(hard to get).
Pedro
Lataxe,
Along with Sir Philip's advised clothing and accouterments -- <<Clad in leather apron, mailed chemise, green leather skirt, pointed velt cap mit feather, deerskin moccasins, with polished leather clad tools , striding through the woods you will encounter many willing maidens .>> -- for transporting your tool treasures, the fashion accessory shown below (that would be a chain mail glove) may also be of use, should you become engaged in close combat -- drawknife á drawknife -- with one of Gamble Gold's latter-day Sherwood Forest-type cousins..... or should you face the need to gallantly defend one of those afore-mentioned willing maidens....
View Image
Also, please ensure that your shaving horse is freshly shod....there was, legend has it, once a king who lost his domain for want of a properly--shoed riding beastie....
.
Tschüß!
James
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
--A.C. Clarke
You could be a real cad and pick up a few sheets of Kydex from a knife sheath or holster supply. I believe the process is soften the piece in hot water, then bend it over the blade, remove it and let it cool. You'll have a hard plastic cover for your blades. You can fritter away the cooling period by drying and oiling your blades.
Lataxe
As usual I am late to the party, but I hope I am not too late.
Both water and oil will change the colour of your leather. What a shoemaker does is stretch the leather dry over a wooden last and he then pins the leather to the last using sharp little tacks (with heads) If you want to be authentic, you toss a handful into your mouth and one by one you turn the tack in your mouth with your tongue push it out between your lips, already oriented so that when you take it in your fingers you do not have to turn it before nailing.
You could modify the technique and stretch the dry leather around the tool, tacking into a piece of wood and leaving it all to take its shape. You would then finish with a trim and double needle sewing as previously mentioned, or you can rivet, if that is a technique that you prefer.
Since the final look may not be important, wetting with either oil or hot water does a fine job. I prefer water. JL
Lataxe,
What is the out come here, Has any of these ramblings helped you?
Pedro
Lataxe,
Sometimes my 2 years in Academia take over and I just wander off on interesting tracks without answering the question asked.
Attached pics illustrate simple, cheap leater cases for a couple of sharp tool. Made these in about '81 and they have kept the tools in good nick thrown in a box with the rest of the kit since. I have lived in the tropics as well as current dry-temperate and there is little sign of rust on these carbon-steel blades. They are very sharp.
Cases were made from scrap leather that looks chrome tanned. I must have bought it as offcuts because I dont recall using it for anything else. they are simply riveted together Stitching between the rivets is cosmetic. If they are going into a tool box or tote, clips or staps are prbably an unnecessary complication.
The knife sheath has gone through stages of everyday wear and has probably been oiled only a couple of times I have replaced the stitching on the right side once to reinforce the belt loop which had come loose.
dave
Dave & Pedro,
The ramblings and the pics have indeed been a help. I now have a rivetter, rivets and shaped pieces of leather to fit the blades, all nicely adrip with old neatsfoot oil that was used, in other times, to soften the leather of my bicycle saddles. (800 miles a week requires comfort in the nether region).
I need now only to find some press studs and the protectors will be complete.
Pictures in due course.
Hole-maker and rivetter cost around $32 and will be used for other gardening-related tasks by the ladywife. No doubt I too will come to wonder how I ever lived without the means to make nice round holes in things then rivet them together.
Perhaps it is possible to rivet up furniture? This will save on glue, biscuits, nails and screws!
Lataxe, a Tackem not a Mackem
Edited 2/22/2007 1:44 pm ET by Lataxe
I have several sets of hole punches for leather. I only use about three sizes for leatherwork. The others got most of their use cutting gaskets - at one stage I used to hand cut al the gaskets for the SU carbs on my old MG about twice a year - some out of leather.
dave
Lataxe,
Is there ever a time when you're not saying something humourous? In your younger days, were you, by chance, a "class clown" driving your teachers batty, whilst disrupting the classroom with your (caustic) wit?
<<Lataxe, a Tackem not a Mackem>>
I feel for the LadyWife: I suspect that, most of the time, she either has her hands wrapped around your throat to get you to "shut-up with the bad puns already," or she is begging you to stop because her sides hurt so much from non-stop laughing.....
:-)~
.<!----><!----><!---->
Tschüß!<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->James<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
--A.C. Clarke
James,
" I feel for the LadyWife....."
No feeling around for the ladywife there! That is my prerogative alone, you cad.
:-)
A Mackem is the name for a person from Sunderland, by the river Wear, a few miles south of where I was born (from a crack in the earth) and dragged up. It is used as a term of disparagement by those from the banks of the Tyne - although the Mackems have now adopted the name with glee.
The term refers to the fact that the Wearsiders, in the 60s, took to building ships via welding of the plates, after seeing how the Koreans and Japanese were making ships far faster than those made in north east England (Tyneside and Wearside) via the older practice of riveting the plates.
The Tynesiders sneered at the new Wearside welders, saying, "We tack 'em and you mack 'em". Of course, history proved the Wearsiders correct as the Tyneside ships became too expensive and slow to make (with tacks/rivets) so the Wearside shipyards did better than those of Tyneside. Also, there were less leaks.
The term "Tackem" is not now used on Tyneside.......
Lataxe, now an etymologist of beautiful Galgate, 5 miles south of Lancaster
PS Thank you for the info on the Mujinfang.
Lataxe,
<<No feeling around for the ladywife there! That is my prerogative alone, you cad.>>
Sir! my arms are not that long -- being that all y'all are on the other side of the pond -- not to mention that said activity -- if ever perpetrated -- would likely result in my schnozz being non-surgically reshaped .... by said offended LadyWife..... (and her stalwart defender).
Besides, I have my own lovely with which to do such things..... ;-)
_____
Thank you, once again, for a quick etymology/history lesson; as always, very interesting.
_____
With Utmost Respect for and Best Regards to the Gallant Sir Lataxe and His Elegant and Lovely LadyWife,
His Non-Cadliness, the Colonial Class Clown From Across the Pond....
.<!----><!----><!---->
Tschüß!<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->James<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
--A.C. Clarke
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