Replies

1. 
   BG | Nov 03, 2002 12:45am | #1

   Sounds like you've been thinking about this for a while..

   One minor detail...bread board ends?..for the vise?...will you use oak?

   Make sure your vise face and bread board end is the same size.  I used a Jorgenson and it needed 4"..

   Sounds great, keep sharing with us..  

2. 
   jackiechan | Nov 03, 2002 09:34am | #2

   Kumarswami -

   I would recommend using a polyurethane glue for the lamination instead of Titebond for two reasons.  One, it will give you a longer work time. Two, if you plan to drill 3/4" holes for bench dogs, yellow glue reacts poorly to high heat, so you'll find a sticky mess on your drill bit. 

   Once you resaw the glue-lam' beams, give them a good stress test by placing them over two saw horses and trying to flex them in the middle.  If they've been sitting for a long time, you'll want to find out now if they're dried out and something less than resilient.

   I would glue up the oak into a large panel first slightly larger than the table surface.  By face and edge gluing the pieces simultaneously onto the table, you may find that when the face gluing dries, it may pull apart the edge gluing leaving gaps in the top surface.  After gluing the solid panel to the table top, clean up the edges with your router and a sharp bearing guided straight bit.

   Lastly, make sure you get all of the varnish off your salvage boards, or you're likely to run into a glue failure from a bad bonding surface.

   Dan Kornfeld - President/Owner, Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

3. 
   ian | Nov 03, 2002 02:43pm | #3

   Kumarswami

   An alternate suggestion, use the gluelam beams as they are for one or more of your bench tops.  Rip the white oak into 3 inch strips and face glue - this will give you a 3in thick white oak bench top made from near quarter sawn stock.   Douglas fir may be soft, but 5in will allow quite a few resurfacings. 

   I'm real nervous about gluing boards to the edge of gluelam beams.   These beams are usually made so that wood movement changes the width of the beam, not its depth.  When turned on their side and used as a bench, this movement is likely to result in uneven support for any material glued to their surface.

   good luck

   Ian

4. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 03, 2002 10:01pm | #4

   Personally, I would be concerned with warping if you glue solid oak boards on top of the edges of a gluelam. The oak is a rather unstable wood and depending on the species of the glue lam and it's grain orientation, there is a likelihood of uneven expansion and contraction of the substrate and the oak top.

   Next, it is almost impossible to get consistent good clamping pressure on the glue-up. It takes specialized equipment like vacuum bagging or a large press to get the pressure to get a good bond.

   When its all said and done, why not just use the 2 1/2" thick gluelam? That is plenty of thickness for a solid benchtop particularly with a properly designed lower support system.

1. 
   Kauai | Nov 03, 2002 10:40pm | #5

   Thank you for the very helpful insights. This is my first question on the forum and I’m very impressed with specific, practical information you all shared. The concern over uneven seasonal movement in the two woods is enough to confirm a sneaking worry that had about the process. I’ll also look into polyurethane glue. Hadn’t heard of it before; just assumed the titebond was the best, but recently did had the sticky mess experience with it on a 3/8 drill bit when deepening some dowel holes.

   Are breadboard ends attached with a t/g joint? Am I correct that those should be made of the same wood as the bench top.

   A related issue: If a bench is made from a glue-lam, can I use a hardwood for the inner face of a vise. I’m thinking of the article in Fine Woodworking, Sept/Oct 2002 by Tom Begnal showing how to install a cast-Iron Vise in which he advised making the inner jaw the full length of the table.

   And if I make one bench out of oak, and make the end vise’s jaws from oak, what would be the best way to glue up that set of jaws? Rip the oak into 2-1/4 strips and glue them into a piece the desired height of the jaws?

   I hope this isn’t too many questions (I have a few more, too.)

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 04, 2002 01:21am | #6

   I am not a fan of poly glue for large surface areas. Poly glue expands as it cures forcing surfaces apart. Joints require tight clamping for a fairly long period. It's very difficult to get sufficient force exerted over a wide glue joint. I don't think I have ever had a bit gunked up by uncured PVA adhesive unless it was not given enough time to cure

   The next question is why do you want breadboard ends? If the gluelams are flat now, they will be flat forever. When you put breadboard ends on a panel, you must use a fastening system that allows the panel to expand and contract. I doubt that breadboard ends bring any advantages.

   Burying the inner vise face inside the front of the bench is a good idea. All you need to do is to get a strip of maple or birch about 2" thick. Clean out a section equal to the width and thickness of the inner vise face and glue this piece on the front of the gluelam.

   Here's a picture of the bench I built a number of years ago.

   
1. 
   BG | Nov 04, 2002 01:37am | #7

   Howie,

   He said he was going to use the vise on the end...that is why I suggested breadboard ends....I would be concerned to have the end of the boards as the inside face of the vise...and also concerned to just glue on a solid piece of wood to the end boards. 

   By the way, thanks for helping me with my bench.

   BG

2. 
   Kauai | Nov 04, 2002 05:15am | #8

   yes. the titebond was wet when I drilled into it, causing the gumming up. Thanks for the pictures of your bench. Very nice. I am planning to do a set of drawers for the main bench, too. Maybe having them open from either side to solve the problem of accessability. Problem there is that then the modern ball-bearing sliders won’t work; so how to make the slider mechanism so it’s not hard to open the drawers?

   Looks like you used bolts to secure the M/T stringers? Regular bolts ok? Or are “bench bolts” that much better?

   Any opinion on sled foot style as opposed to plain post legs?

   Do you experience any problems with your toes hitting the end of the sled foot when you work around the bench? Or is that closeness something one just gets used to?

   Also, for years we have worked on a simple table (plywood top, 2x4 base) that is 40 inches wide. I find it wider than needed, but would feel quite limited going down to the typical 22-24 inch width, so thinking of making the new benches 32 or 36 inches.

   Finally, how should one faster the inner jaw of the end vise to the slab top?

   Edited 11/3/2002 9:57:13 PM ET by KM

1. 
   BG | Nov 04, 2002 02:55pm | #9

   Let me expalin first that i just finished my bench...so my experience is limited.

   I used the sled foot for the extra strength, weight and adjustability to my uneven floor.  Also, I may put the whole thing on a sheet of ply for additional stability...with me standing on the ply when I work.

   The traditional size of 20-24 inches makes sense if you consider that you want to be able to get our weight over the tool, over the piece your working on.  You really don't want to be working a plane 24-30 inches away from your body.  With that said however, your needs come first so you decide.  Length is a more important factor. 

   Likewise, the dog holes need to be close to the edge also...and aligned with the vise supports.

   I put a single draw attached to the top..about 5 1/2x12x16.  I may do a set of draws...but right now I want that space for wood storage.

2. 
   AlanTurner | Nov 04, 2002 06:47pm | #10

   As to the drawer issue, how about a japanese system?  Cut a groove or dado in the side of the drawer, and mount a strip or rail of hardwood on the carcase.  The drawer slides on the rail, the rail caarries the weight.  I did this on my office desk, built in 1979, and it still works great.  It only opens from one side, but this would work for a two sided opening.

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 04, 2002 09:15pm | #11

   >>so how to make the slider mechanism so it’s not hard to open the drawers?

   The sides of my drawers have 3/8" wide x 3/8" deep slot that runs on 3/8 x 1/2 hardwood runners. Some paraffin rubbed on the runners and the drawers slide like they are on roller bearings. The bottom drawer has three planes in it and is quite heavy. But, it slides with little effort.

   >>Looks like you used bolts to secure the M/T stringers?

   Do you mean the breadboard ends? If so, I used 6" long lag bolts. A breadboard does not need to be held on super strong. The back bolt goes into an elongated slot in the breadboard while the front on is fixed. My bench expands about 1/4" from winter to summer.

   >>Any opinion on sled foot style as opposed to plain post legs? Do you experience any problems with your toes hitting the end of the sled foot.

   Never thought about it. It's just what I thought would make a solid assembly. My bench can be quickly knocked down. Just take off the top which is held by two lag bolts through the top leg support, remove the stringers and lift out the storage compartment.

   I can't recall ever banging my toes.

   >>Also, for years we have worked on a simple table (plywood top, 2x4 base) that is 40 inches wide. I find it wider than needed, but would feel quite limited going down to the typical 22-24 inch width, so thinking of making the new benches 32 or 36 inches.

   That would be way to wide for me. Takes up too much space. I have a flat assembly table which is lower than my bench measuring about 40 x 60. I only work wood on my bench--little or no assembly.

   >>Finally, how should one faster the inner jaw of the end vise to the slab top?

   The vise fastens to the bottom of the bench top using whatever thickness spacer is needed to get it to the height you need. Then, in my case, four lag bolts to hold it.

3. 
   ownersrep | Nov 05, 2002 08:26pm | #12

   I'm in the process of building a bench that will be almost exactly like yours.  I'm struggling trying to figure out how to mount the end vise.  Can you share a little direction on how you built the enclosure for the screw mechanism?

   Thanks,

   A newbie

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 05, 2002 11:55pm | #13

   While I made a number of changes, my bench is based on the Michael Fortune bench described in detail in the "Workbench Book" by Landis published by Taunton Press.

   If you are interested in the end vise, you can either purchase the book--excellent book to have around anyway--or try to find it in a library. While not particularly difficult to do, you do need some detailed information and illustration.

2. 
   BG | Nov 06, 2002 12:16am | #14

   Jim,

   I want to echo Howie's comments about the Landis book...excellent!

   Also, hopefully you have discovered "Bob's Workbench" web page.  There is a link there where the person put up the detail plans for their workbench..including the shoulder vise.  Wish I could be more specific but the details are lost in the short term memory bank. 

3. 
   ownersrep | Nov 06, 2002 02:37am | #15

   Thanks guys.  I've got the book (that's probably why my workbench is going to look so much like yours).  I was still a little confused about the end vice.  Thats where he went from the hardware that they had custom made for their workbench to the hardware that can be bought off the shelf.  I was just hoping for something a little clearer.  I'll study the book some more.

4. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 06, 2002 07:31pm | #16

   Jim, I just followed the illustrations and text on pages 76-78. If you have any specific question, send me a note. The best advise is to be sure you have your hardware before you start and pay particular attention to allowing room for the shims between the lower guideplate and the core.

5. 
   ownersrep | Nov 07, 2002 12:58am | #17

   Howie,

   Thanks for your help.  I'll read up and try it this weekend.  Part of the concern is that I copied them in buying Paduak for that vice and haven't got a lot extra if I mess up.

5. 
   Telemike | Nov 07, 2002 08:27am | #18

   You will glue up the laminated beams, then laminate oak to the top surface?

   As I learned the hard way, what ever you do to one side of a panel, you MUST do to the other side.  Unless, of course, you're trying to make an interestingly curved panel.

1. 
   Kauai | Nov 07, 2002 06:16pm | #19

   I already have the glue-lam beams. And I have abandoned the idea of gluing oak to their tops, heeding the same good advice from others on the forum. I will probably use the glue lams for some benches. We have a multi-function shop with three rooms. One is for maintenance, and they are pretty rough on benches. For the others, I will glue up hardwood the proper way, as advised. Thanks to all for the input. It has been very helpful.