I have a client that has asked me to build some green laminate cabinets for his office. He has some that were built by a cabinet shop about 10 years ago that he wants me to match.
Where do I get the laminate in green color and do I laminate the sheets prior to cutting or after? I suppose that I will need to laminate the insides also to prevent warpage?
Also, what is an approximate cost for sheets of laminate?
I have built birch ply cabinets before but never used laminates. Any help is appreciated.
Replies
You can Google Formica, Wilsonart, and Melamine, to find the colors. Check with Melamine to see if they have the pre-made panels in the color you want.
Yes, you will have to surface both sides, with the exception of the top.
Most likley the interior is white melamine. Edge band rails, tops, bottoms and doors. Laminate door/dwr fronts and finished ends.
There are three different grades of laminate. Horizontal grade (thickest, for counter tops, available in many sizes), vertical grade (thinest, for doors and finished ends, 4x8 only) and post forming (in the middle, for ct with rounded over edge). You will lay up sheets (one side) before cutting if interiors are finished. If interior is white melimine, cut your parts, edge band them (available in many colors preglued or you can cut V32 (vertical grade laminate) into 7/8" to 1" strips and contact cement them on for edgeing), trim route EB (edgebanding), file then assemble. Finished ends and door/dwr fronts are the last to be laminated.
Be mindfull of the direction you cut your parts because melimine will chip out badly. Always cover the chipped out side with the laminate or you can score the melimine before you cut to finished size. Pain in the a$$ with out a saw wqith a scoreing blade.
Edited 3/17/2005 8:00 am ET by Jay
What is a laminate file and why do you need to use one?
After you apply laminate to any substrait you will use a straight router to remove the excess ovehang. After flush trimming with a straight router you use a beveled bit (15 degrees) for any edge that does not get covered with a subsiquent layer of P-Lam (ie. Laminate all four edges of the door but only bevel route one door face (the side that was cut face up without chip out) with a bevel bit (this is the finished interior of the door). The other side is belt sanded flush (towards the center of the door to prevent pulling the edge off or chipping) then laminated with the finished layer of laminate (this is the outer finished side of the door). If you were to bevel route bofore overlaying the edge you would be left with an unsightly gap between the edge and finished face laminate. After bevel routeing you use a fine file (I use a 12" mill bastard) to finish the edge. If you adjust your bevel bit just right you will need to do very little filing. Be certain to removed any overhang or it might get caught on and chipped.
So you suggest using industrial PB rather than MDF? I would imagine that the MDF could get quite heavy anyway.
Yes, the insides can be white so maybe I can go with the melamine.
Do you guys have any idea on cost of this laminate? I believe that I saw about $40 per 4x8 sheet several years ago. This was kitchen cabinet top laminate. I guess this is the same stuff?
Thanks for the advice!
You should use the correct substrate which is industrial particle board. MDF is very heavy and you can pull laminate right off it. The paper like layers will easily separate from the sheet. When placing laminate on the surfaces, the cement works by applying pressure. You need to put a lot of pressure on your pieces with a roller. Laminate prices vary by brand and type. Colorcore, which is the same color throughout the layers is more expensive than standard. You should know the specific brand and get a price from your source but $40-$50 per 4x8 sheet sounds about right. CMT makes a Euro style laminate trimming bit. It has a square nylon bearing so the bearing doesn't rotate on your edges and cause marking. A laminate file is made for removing the machine marks left by the router bits and for easing corners. A mill bastard file will also work. You use either in a draw file fashion, delicately.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Partical board for two sided layups, melamine for one sided (ie. interior of cabinets finished in wht melamine). Sand the side to be laminated thoroughly before applying contact cement.
I have used mdf with laminate and many companies sell pre-laid panels using mdf. They use a different glue and method of laminateing then most in-shop layups. (Like white glue with high pressure rollers). I prefer the light weight varity of mdf to the very heavy "standard" mdf (only for handling considerations). I also prefer veneer on light weight mdf to veneer on chip. Again for handling considerations. Veneer on veneer core (poplar veneer core) is most prefered.
So, would it be best to use Birch plywood for the substrate? I have a fear of particleboard getting wet and/or chipping or breaking during delivery.
I will have to laminate both sides - outside in green and inside in white.
I just hate the thought of melamine. Any additional advice guys?
Also, any preference of Blum vs. Grass hinges?
Chip is a very good substate for CT construction. After it is laminated it wont chip. After CT construction you should back any material you use with backing or scrap laminate. Keeps surface tension equal on both side of substrate.
If interior is wht, melamine is the product to use. Highly unlikly that cabinets there are built with laminate interiors. Not sure what your fears with melamine are. It is a good product for this purpose and highly used for comercial millwork. Wht. laminate interiors would be overkill.
I like Blum over but both are good hinges.
When you say to sand the side to be laminated, are you sanding to remove the white or to scratch it up for adhesion?
If you are asking these questions now, HOW did you manage to provide your client with an estimate or price to do this work?
I have not given him a price yet, just agreed on materials. He has an estimate of $12K to build these cabinets and move 10 of same from his current office.
That includes 7 with 5 drawers each, 4 with doors and 3 more wide cabinets with doors. No shelves inside.
I've calculated the materials at $3,400 and plan to quote $8,650 including labor but no installation. He will have the finish carpenters install the cabinets and the counter tops across them.
Scratch it well for proper adhesion. Belt sand it. Just kind of breaking the gloss of the melamine.
You may have trouble matching the laminate, the lamainat companeys like to discontiue patterens and colors prettey regular. 10 years i have my doubts
Have a nice day Lee
Thanks Lee. We have agreed on Wilsonart Hunter Green and Melamine for the substrate. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Thanks for walking me through this one. I would have been double-working my rear off covering both sides of that birch ply!
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