I’m starting the process of refacing my Kitchen cabinets and have run into a design question that I could use some help with. I’m a hobbyist, so my exposure to kitchen cabinets is fairly limited. What type of doors are you getting the most requests for these days? I was thinking about flush fit doors as an upscale replacement for my older spec grade full overly doors. While I was looking in the big box store this weekend for ideas I couldn’t help but notice that ALL the cabinets on display and in the catalogs were full overlay. I know that the big box store is catering to the lower end of the market, but I was surprised that none of the manufacturers even offered flush fit doors. What are your customers asking for these days?
Thanks,
Tom
Replies
My "customer" is my wife and she likes inset (flush) doors. They are challenging to make and have fit well. They can also have a litte bit of a tendency to not fit perfectly long term. I have a cabinet that had perfectly fitting doors when I first made it and for months afterward. Now one door is out by about 1/8". On an overlay door, it would go unnoticed, but on an inset door it's pretty obvious. Considering the extra work it takes for a production shop to make them and the potential for call backs, it's no wonder they seem to be the pervue of higher end shops. They do look nice though, particularly if they have a bead or other detail.
If you're replacing overlay doors with flush fit (inset?) doors, will you have to deal with the screw holes from the old hinges?
As far as what's popular, I would suggest that you go with whatever look you like best.
IMHO: Nothing says custom as much as flush fit doors. Tolerances need to be higher with flush fit, which is why I think they have a more high-end look, of course, you should always build to high tolerances. You can also use euro hinges to make the adjustment and fitting easier.
I don't think I would attempt the inset doors if i wasn't doing it for my own kitchen. I like to expand my skills with each project so this is a good prgression for me. I've done some inset doors before on a desk, but wasn't as pleased with the result as I would have liked. I'm going to take them on as a challenge. I learned from my last attempt that making them dead FLAT is a must.
Thanks for your replies.
Tom
Since you're making new doors for existing cabinets, check your face frames carefully for square - or out of square. Even if they were dead-on when new, there could have been some movement over the years.Will you also be making flush drawer fronts? You could have the same squareness issues and it's important that the drawer glide hardware is in good condition. I've run into fit up problems when the glides were a bit off.Good luck with the project.
Argh... dead flat is right! I'm struggling with that on some doors that I made right now. My hack solution is to flatten it in a jig for a week (pretty close to dead flat) now, I hope it stays that way. Also I plan on using magnetic door latches to hold things closed and flat. I know that wouldn't work for most other projects, which is why I mentioned euro-style hinges.
One other thought. My cabinet maker/friend (he built my kitchen), recommends building with 7/8 inch stock. This is much more stable than 3/4 inch. I should have listened to him, but 4/4 rough was on sale!
I think the stock size depends on the size of the door, and the width of the stiles and rails. If the stock is quarter sawn and stable, I think 3/4 or 13/16 is fine. If the stock is reasonably straight to begin with you can get 13/16 out of 4/4 stock. For really flat doors, I've found it necessary to joint the stock twice; once to get it close to size then again after letting it sit for a while.
I agree with jointing stock twice. It's a lesson that I am just learning. The extra time really pays off.
Brookfield,
My customers want overlay doors. If they asked for flush doors, I'd tell them to go to someone else. I won't make them. They are problematic by design IMHO.
Here's another look at it... Let's assume there is demand or a market for flush door cabinets. Yet you can't find them in the stores. That tells me that (again this is only opinion) the major cabinet companies have found that these cabinets are too big a problem to market even with only a 1 year warrantee.
Your openings of your existing cabinets have to be square and plumb. Then, you have be cabable of making perfectly square doors and drawer fronts. Your tolerances have to be dead on, with an equal reveal all the way around the door or drawer, or it will really look poor. If your skill level allows you to accomplish this, then I'd say have at it. If not, overlay doors are easy to build, easy to hang, with little adjustment required after they are hung. What little adjustment you will need to make can be do so with the hinges.
When I make inset flush doors, I make them to a very tight fit, and plane them for a perfectly equal reveal, all the way around. It takes a little longer, but I charge accordingly.
Jeff
Awww Jeff, working with square & plumb faceframes is nowhere near as much fun as dealing with old cabs that have moved over the years.I have a whole set of cuss works that I only use for those situations. - lol
I made a business decision a long time ago to never work with old cabinet carcasses. I build new ones. They aren't expensive, and in the long run, it's the only way to insure quality. I can bang out a kitchen full of boxes in a day or two, depending on size. The frames, doors, and finish work take all the work, and I don't want to waste my efforts tweaking new good quality work trying to fit them to someone elses mess.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Jeff
Amen to that, Jeff.David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
I don't work with old cabs either - except in very special situations (family, close friends, etc)Most of my experience with out of square cabs came early in my woodworking days when I was still working out how to make them square to start with. - lol
Tom, I am in the process of re-facing the doors in my kitchen cabinets.
I'm using the existing 3/4" mahogany veneered plywood doors which have the half overlap design.
First I remove the overlap portion which allows the "slab" to fit inside the face frame opening. Next, in order to create the appearance of frame and panel construction, I glue and pin 3/8" x 2 1/4"mahogany stock to the perimeter of the slab, overhanging it by 3/8" to restore the half overlap form and allowing me to attach to the existing hinges.
Prior to attaching the mahogany stock to the slab I mill the edges of the stock to create the illusion of cope and stick joinery.
To further inhance the appearence, I create a cathedral motif on the top rail of the upper cabinet doors by using 3 1/4" stock with a 1" rise in the cathedral arch.
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