Anyone with suggestions for edge jointing long wide planks in a timely and efficient way? I have 16 to 18 inch wide one inch thick mostly clear Douglas Fir boards which I am going to mill into wide plank flooring. The length is 16′ 6″. I cut the boards about 4 years ago and in the meantime I have yet to decide on the best method to use for getting a good straght edge to begin the process. I have considered my 8″ jointer (78″ table) but the width of the boards seems to discourage this. ( tall auxillary fence, long runout table) Straight edge attached to each board and run through the tablesaw ( seems tedious and not as accurate as I would like) Maybe a router with a straight guide? But again the individual board setup. I have about 30 boards to do so production is a consideration. Eventually the planks will be planed to 13/16″ and tongue and grooved. Any ideas would be appreciated. It is time to work this wood!
Thanks,
Goyo
Replies
Finger joint for the ends or T&G.
Make a carrier for the table saw with hold down clamps.
Someday I'm gonna take the time to explain to tablesaw users just what a limited piece a table saw is..
It's a ripping tool only! the fact that you can cross cut and do a few other things with it has much more to do with your creativety then any advantage the table saw has..
when it comes to getting things straight, I'll take ajointer any day.. In fact that is the standard method I use to get nice straight long boards. Rip with a skill saw and a fence and then run over the jointer.. much faster and easier..
I have a carrier with mounted snap lock clamps. A 3/4x3/8 guide strip mounted to the bottom of the carrier. Carrier is is 16' long. Clamp in piece insert the guide into the saws' mortise and rip away. No holes or damage to the board. Ripped VERY straight. Lots of production right away.
Should be there by the weekend to start painting.....
I'm sorry, we aren't painting this weekend,, doing stone work instead.. feel free to join us for that..
that carrier sounds interesting though, bring it along! <G>
I'm good at stone work. It's the painting I need to work on.
Good then you can get really stoned,, drink wet cement..
I'm sorry I couldn't resist that!
Besides I have a black New Fundland dog that I would really not like blue...<G>
A dog in the house.... This is getting better by the minuet.
I'll watch out for the New Fundland. I have a soft spot for critters.
when he stands up on his hind legs he'll look down into your eyes and spot any evil intentions.. should he spot any please note that the ground is soft out back to easily bury any remains...<G>
PS his name is "Buddy"
Buddy is over 6' tall?
Buddy is in the best of care and considerations. I'll spoil him rotton. We'll (Buddy) get along just fine.
standing on his hindlegs you bet! He's a young 2 year old so he hasn't filled out yet but right now he's about 125 pounds.
Still buddy will be in the greatest of hands. The finest of care......
As for you....
Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheehehehehe
where were you this weekend? I was sweating bullets here laying stone for the last retaining wall.. I coulda used a hand, espcially since my right arm is so gimpy lately.. When that sun comes around the corner and starts to shine down without any shade there isn't enough water available to keep hydrated..
It may have been only 80 or so today but it felt like 120
Where are you?
So I pain't and do you suppose I should bring Larry and he can do the hand rails and CAG can tell os how to put it all together.
I've done this with 500 bd ft of 3/4" butternut that was between 4" and 11" wide and 8' - 9' long. Clamped a 16' arrow straight 2X6 with a 12" rip of 1/2" plywood screwed to it. Clamped the assembly to the top of the table saw and supported at both ends.
If I did it again, I would put a good coat of paste wax on the TS, fence, and ply.
Served as a combined looong fence extension and in-out feed support. Was a hassle to re-set the fence-to-blade distance, but in your case, you'll only have to re-set once. Helped alot to have DW or helper to help hold the outfeed tight to the fence, and help swing the boards on and off.
Don't see any reason why this wouldn't work in your case. Just put the crown to the blade on the first cut...the second cut is a breeze.
Edited 8/8/2003 4:06:21 PM ET by johnnyd
Edited 8/8/2003 4:24:37 PM ET by johnnyd
The safest and easiest way is to make up a straightedge 16'-6" out of plywood. Clamp at each end , screw in center on underside of planking. Put a rip blade in a wormdrive saw if you have one, or whatever saw you have. Should take less then two hours to rip 30 planks.
Mike
Goyo,
Without going into the various ways you can joint boards of this size, and there are many, I think you should understand the problems that occur when very wide stock is used for floor boards. The image of huge planks on the floor is very romantic, but in reality they create serious technical problems that have no good solution. I have actually seen all these problems in wide plank floors, this isn't just speculation on my part.
The first problem is due to the very large dimensional changes that the boards will go through as they gain and lose moisture with seasonal humidity changes. An 8% moisture change will cause an 18 inch wide Douglas fir plank to gain or lose a full 3/8 of an inch in width. This will cause huge gaps at the joints and possibly allow some of the tongues to fully separate from their grooves. Even if the tongues manage to stay in the grooves, while the gaps are open for several months during dry weather they'll fill with dirt that will be unsightly and cause problems when the gaps try to close up again during wetter times of the year.
Another problem with using such wide stock is that the boards, no matter how carefully they are prepared, will want to bend, cup, twist, and otherwise warp with seasonal changes in moisture content. There is no way to attach the boards down solidly enough to prevent this from happening without creating just as bad a problem with the boards cracking. I would guess that in a floor of this size at least a few boards will tear their tongues right off when the strain becomes great enough. It is for all of the problems I have just explained that floor boards are almost always made under three inches wide even though the rough stock they are made from started out much wider.
One last problem, Douglas fir's summer growth rings are much softer than the winter ones, which will cause very uneven wear of the floor over time. Unfortunately, no finishing technique will significantly prevent any of the problems I have outlined.
John W.
Edited 8/8/2003 4:26:50 PM ET by JohnW
Easy?
For me I would to use a router- also the edge would also be a true 90 to the top .
This would be easier for me than trying to guide big chunks through a saw or jointer.
Think About It
I already have done this several times.. (I'm building a timberframe home) I've worked with boards over twenty feet long..
The trick is infeed and outfeed tables on the jointer.. Take a line (monofiliment fishing line is best) and strech it across the jointer. then build up infeed and outfeed tables as long as the boards. (I'm not fancy, I align everything and using a nail gun bang them together in less than five minutes)
edge nail and have the legs run long.. so what if one sticks up four inches and the other a Half. If you are doing more than a couple of boards bang a couple of nails into diagonals. I'm really crude, one leg can be a 2x6 another a 1x10. It doesn't have to be pretty..
if you have low or high areas in the infeed/outfeed boards, build extra legs, or push down and nail a brace in place to hold it there..
When I started this I used boards that I had carefully waxed.. now I don't bother.
this will all be fairly moveable so you'll need to tie it all together.. what I did was run the jointer (it's on wheeels) onto a chunk of plywood and bang stopps in toi keep it from rolling around.. then the legs for the outfeed and infeed were nailed to that same piece of plywood.. (at least closest to the jointer)..
Five minutes and everything is ready and I spend less time then that removing all of the nails and restacking the wood to be used again as infeed outfeed for something else..
It really helps if you have someone helping you feed the boards thru, do a couple of practice runs so every body understands what's happening.. (don't explain, just do a short board to show them what to expect and then do a practice run with a longer board. )
Edited 8/8/2003 7:06:13 PM ET by frenchy
I do it Frenchy's way and douse the jointer and tables with the silicon spray I use for the sawmill tracks.
Have you seen other floors constructed of the same material? You might take a look, if you haven't, to see what happens to your material over time. You could also learn about installation.
Wide board pine floors have been common in New England for centuries. These floors used to be painted. The paint would protect the wood, fill scratches, and fill the gaps between the boards. Tongue and grooves don't work so great on this wood, because top side of the grooved edge is way weak for flooring.
I used soft wood floors in my own new house, because Eastern White Pine is an inexpensive, local, material. The boards vary from 8" to 22". To save money, I had the carpenter air nail the boards down with framing nails. The hot glue on the nails prevents nails from popping, and the oval shaped holes the heads left look like old cut nail holes.
If you use a dynamic material like wide Douglas Fir, don't expect your floor to look like laminate.
That's pretty wide for flooring, it's really going to move a lot. As to ripping it, find a millwork shop that has a straight line ripsaw and pay the $30-$50 to have it done, (they keep the sawdust too).
Napie,
why do you like to make big boards into little boards? Do you really like the look of a gym?
trees grow nice wide boards,, part of the beauty of wood is those wide boards, chop them into pieces and you lose a piece of that beauty..
sure it's a little more complicated to deal with that shrinkage and expansion but it can be done and the results are always worth the trouble..
Frenchy,
With all due respect to your opinion, trees grow to be big trees, not to produce wide boards for humans to make into flooring or furniture.
Wide plank floors, and I've seen enough of them to be confident in my opinion, have numerous drawbacks that cannot be overcome simply, if at all. I don't know of any method that's "a little more complicated", as you claim, that would solve the problems I outlined in my earlier posting.
I do know a number of people who put down wide board floors and they initially loved the look, but were very disappointed later when the appearance of the floors deteriorated rather quickly. I wasn't telling the original poster he couldn't do it, but I felt that he should know the pitfalls.
John W.
Edited 8/15/2003 11:04:57 AM ET by JohnW
John,
Here you and I will have to agree to disagree. With all due respect to your opinion, the limitations of dealing with wide boards can be delt with.. I too accept their limitations but fail to believe that the correct solution is to cut the boards into little pieces to deal with those problems..
I have a headboard on my bed that has an 18 inch wide board. Made by a company called Stickley, perhaps you've heard of them? It's flawless and very inpressive..
There is a company that advertises in the magazine rather heavily selling wide plank flooring called Carlise.. They deal with wide planks on a day to day basis... so it can be done..
John,
you say "trees grow to be big trees, not to produce wide boards for humans..."
perhaps, but ashes to ashes, and sawdust to sawdust!
I'm not chipping in to comment so much on the jointing issue as I am other aspects. I do agree that the best solution to straighten an edge with extremely long stock would be to make a long straight-edge and rip with a circular saw. Then clean up on the jointer or with a hand plane. I had to joint some 14' poplar for stair skirting and did it all with my 22" jointer plane.
I am also in the process of making all the hardwood flooring for my new home. One of the comments suggested finger joints or t-g for end cuts. I don't think either is necessary. I just cut them straight on my chop saw. The end-matching on most commercial stock is so poorly fit as to provide no extra strength to the joint anyway.
I agree with the comment about shrinkage. You might be much better off ripping the stock down to a more reasonable 6" or so. As for the wood being soft in the early-wood; that would not be a show stopper for me unless it was to be used in a high traffic area. In our home, we never wear shoes once we walk in the door. You will have to take your personal habits into account here to protect a floor that is not as durable as it should be.
I have now made and laid a few hundred square feet of my stock, (with ever increasing success). If you are looking for some pointers, respond back and I'll try to offer some tips from what I have learned.
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