Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 14, 2003 10:23pm | #1

   That long bed would be real nice, but what about the Grizzly 8" jointers. Seems a shame to settle for a 6" if you really need an 8".  Three models, lots of happy owners.  About $700-800.  GO500 has a 75" bed and 4-blade cutterhead.

   http://www.grizzly.com/products/items-list.cfm?key=450010&sort=price&site=grizzly

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Quickstep | Mar 14, 2003 11:55pm | #2

   This may be dumb or biased, but Isn't the Powermatic better made? I know their castings are made in Taiwan (supposedly under strict quality control) but the electrics are made in the US. As I understand it, the Grizzly is completely made in Taiwan. 

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 15, 2003 12:06am | #3

   I'd agree that Powermatic is probably overall a better machine, but if I really needed an 8" jointer and had only $700 or $800 to spend, I would not hesitate to buy the Grizzly 8", rather than settle for a 6" that was going to cost me the same or even more money.

   [got interruped by a phone call] --  Wouldn't say this if there wasn't plenty of information in the form of user-based-information that their 8" jointers are quite good machines.  I came close to getting their 6", but found a used Jet for a little lower price (and closer to boot), so went that way instead.  Could do nothing but drool on the picture of the Powermatic with the extra-long bed.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   Edited 3/14/2003 5:17:02 PM ET by forestgirl

2. 
   RW | Mar 15, 2003 02:01am | #4

   You're really happy with Griz? I don't mean it in a snooty way; I just never hear good reviews on their wares. My mental image of them is low budget, i.e. not quality. I'm interested in another POV." Shoot first and inquire afterwards, and if you make mistakes, I will protect you." Hermann Goering to the Prussian police, 1933.

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 15, 2003 06:33pm | #9

   "I'm interested in another POV."  Do a search on "Grizzly jointer" and "Grizzly 1023" (their cabinet saw) -- you'll find many people in several threads who have either or both and are quite happy with them.

   This is not to say, as I've stated repeatedly, that given the money I'd not buy a Powermatic or Jet 8" jointer.  But the 8" Grizzly is an excellent buy and a very good machine.  And, their customer service is quite good.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   fdampier5 | Mar 16, 2003 07:47am | #11

   Gotta jump in here about Grizzly,

     I bought their 8 inch one and so far I've used it for close to 20,000 bd.ft. of hardwood.    Great is the only word. Heavy well made and simple to work on if needed..  It convinced me to buy their 12 inch table saw as well as their 20 inch planer..  None of which I would have had the budget for if I'd been a tool snob. 

         Last summer the tools were repeatedly soaked in rain water  (long story)  the only power tool that failed is my Delta portable planner. 

1. 
   RW | Mar 16, 2003 07:55am | #13

   THANK YOU.

   It's the weekend and time to change the quote. You're the only cat thus far to make commentary on the ever changing theme. Creative juices waning. You got a fav, I'll rent the ad space to ya for the week." Shoot first and inquire afterwards, and if you make mistakes, I will protect you." Hermann Goering to the Prussian police, 1933.

3. 
   kjwells54 | Mar 17, 2003 07:56am | #14

   I had a Grizzly shaper and found the quality to be poor. The spindle cocked to the side when it was clamped, the fence could not be moved to the center of the cutter, the fence in general was poorly casted and difficult to align, etc. This experience has kept me from purchasing other Griz products but I continually hear that people are happy with their machines. I am far from a perfectionists but I feel Grizzly's quality needs to improve before I will purchase another of their machines.

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 17, 2003 07:19pm | #15

   A couple of questions:  What year did you buy the machine?  Did you call and ask for a replacement?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   RW | Mar 18, 2003 02:16am | #16

   See, thats kind of why I asked your opinion. You're the most verbose in favor of them. You have several of their things, you know about the line. Better qualified to answer than someone with more of just a passing experience. Kind of like asking me about Hilti (but don't get me started, I'll be here all night). I know, you thought I was dogging on you, but I wasn't. I really wanted just your two cents. Why would you want to take the gal out of the forest anyways? Always wanted to ask that too. ;-)" An example from the monkey: The higher it climbs, the more you see of its behind."  Saint Bonaventure

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 18, 2003 03:51am | #17

   Ooooops, I feel the need to run a disclaimer or correction or something.  I actualy own only the 1019Z bandsaw.  I follow very closely other owners' comments on other machines (primarily the jointers and cabinet saw). There are plenty of cheerleads for the "you get what you pay for crowd" so I'm leading the charge for "if this is all you can afford, try ____________"  and I try to state when the info is 1st hand and when it's 2nd hand.

   re:  Taking the gal out of the forest -- exactly what I wanted to know when my mom dragged me from the glorious forests of N. Carolina down to Florida of all places when I was 8 years old.  "I don' wanna go!!!!!!!"  So now, at several multiples of 8 years, I'm here in the forests of the Puget Sound.

   PS:  Wonder why Mr. V.Kev hasn't replied to my ???'s.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   Edited 3/17/2003 8:52:36 PM ET by forestgirl

3. 
   DennisS | Mar 24, 2003 07:47am | #22

   I don't own any Grizz tools, RW, but had a nice chat with my neighbor who's a pro cabinet maker (does some nice stuff!) He had the Grizzley 12 table saw, dust collector and shaper in his shop. He's sold on their quality/price performance. The saw assembled easily and was well tuned once together. The arbor can be changed from 1" (for 12" blades) to 5/8" (for 10" blades).

   Since I'll be moving up North near Bellingham where their showroom is located (here in WA state) I plan on giving them a serious nod for some of the machinery I need to flush out my tool stable for the new shop.

   True, you get what you pay for but in some cases, you pay more than you get.

   ...........

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

4. 
   fdampier5 | Mar 25, 2003 02:07am | #25

   the point that should be added is that Grizzley sells without going thru local dealers.. thus they eliminate some of the costs.  If middle men added value then perhaps you could justify the cost, however my experiance has been few stores staff their salesfloor with real experts. That tends to be a low pay level job staffed by young starting salesmen or others breaking into the sales industry.    Since they are often paid a commision the staff is more likely to be misleading rather than informed.  Seldom has evan my best local store had a salesman last more than a few months.

        The overhead of a store, the commision paid to the staff and a variety of costs make it difficult to jusify the costs when there is a viable alternative.

5. 
   kjwells54 | Mar 23, 2003 09:33am | #20

   Forest Girl,

   Sorry for not responding earilier, this is a busy time of the year for me. I bought the Grizzly shaper in about 1990 and no, I did not ask for a replacement. I, as so many others, lived with the deficiencies and made my own fence. For the most part I believe you get what you pay for. Quality costs and it is up to us, the consumer, to decide what a good value is. My personal bottom line is that I expect a machine that is usable and accurate. I can live without the bells and whistles and perhaps with some decrease in the life of the machine (or more periodic maintenance) but I feel even an inexpensive machine should be usable (all of the parts at least work) and accurate (for woodworking I expect the machine to be accurate to a minimum of 1/32"). I do not feel the Grizzly shaper met these requirements.

   By the way, re: my personal bottom line. Along the same lines when I hire a carpenter I "expect" his work to be plumb and level - I do not feel I should have to specify these requirements. If I contract for a floor to be laid I "expect" it to be flat and do not feel I should have to specify this requirement. In both cases I have had more than one experience of these implicit requirements not being met. My point being that we all have some expectation of quality and that some things should go without saying.

6. 
   forestgirl | Mar 23, 2003 07:18pm | #21

   Hi, and thanks for providing the additional information.  I don't disagree with your general points made above.  Your expectations as you described them seem perfectly reasonable.

   I asked the questions so that we would know how long ago your defective machine was manufactured and what types of remedies you sought.  Based on what I've read, 13 years ago the quality control over Grizzly tools was not near as good as it is now, so your experience may very well not translate to what a customer might have today.  Also, it could very well be that if you had contacted the company, they'd have sent you a new fence (or whatever you needed) free of charge, with their apologies.

   To summarize, IMO it's not fair to present a critique such as you did in Post #15 without making it clear that your experience is from over a decade ago.  I'm not trying to pick on you.  People do this all the time in the "which tool company" threads -- I'd just like to see some "truth in criticism".

   You stated in your post "I feel Grizzly's quality needs to improve before I will purchase another of their machines."  Well, perhaps their quality has improved -- enough to meet your reasonable expectations oulined above.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

7. 
   kjwells54 | Mar 25, 2003 05:09am | #27

   Point taken and you are entirely correct. Companies survive by constantly improving and the fact that Grizzly is still around and seem to be increasing their product line is evidence that they are doing something right. I will continue to monitor this site to gather other's experience with Grizzly products.  

8. 
   forestgirl | Mar 25, 2003 06:07am | #29

   Oooohhh, I love being "entirely correct" and you, sir, are a gentleman.  Welcome to the bear-watchers club.  Today was my day off, and it's ending pleasantly. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

9. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 25, 2003 02:11am | #26

   VENTURA

      Agree with FG and others on Griz. Ten years ago I wouldn't touch it. Now is a different story as they have gotten motivated and are producing good quality at a reasonable price. I saw Tauras Firearms do the same in the early 80's. Went from junk to pretty darn good and cheaper than the competiotors. I think Grizzly realized to compete the quality had to be up-graded and I think they did that. And kept it reasonable.

     Every line has hit and misses, but I wouldn't hestitate to get their cabinet saw, 8" jointer and several other pieces that folks have bought and are generally satisfied with.

   sarge..jt

2. 
   eximreb | Mar 18, 2003 04:05am | #18

   I had purchased three things form Grizzly, all poot quality. A brad gun that was so poorly made that to try to repair it was out of the question. Called them. That was a sale item. No help from them. I bought a drill from them. The armature was bad, so sorry. Last of all an 18" band saw that could not deliver enough blade pressure to avoid barreling, doing a resaw. They claimed it was my fault, & that the blade did not need that much pressure. This was not too long ago. I seriously thought of complaining to OSHA to have that model banned. I decided not to waste my time any more, & be done with Grizzly. Yes I did talk to them, & over & over I was told that there was nothing wrong with 18" band saw. Did any one else have a blade barrel in the middle of a 6-4s piece of red oak?

   Good luck to you Ventura Kev

1. 
   JohnCabot | Mar 18, 2003 06:53am | #19

   I agree with the lady from the forest that too often we justify high prices with the cliche' "you get what you pay for".

   I had been a subscriber to consumer reports for many years and after a while it was no longer surprising that the most expensive item was not necessarily the best quality. Although that rule might apply in general, it is not by all means applicable to every item, otherwise shopping for tools would be very simple, just get the most expensive. One of the reasons I enjoy partecipating in this forum is the sharing of information on tools that in the experience of so many work satisfactorly even if not the most expensive. I, for example use a delta cabinet TS, should I need to replace it I would not hesitate to buy a Grizzly 1023, which cost almost half than a Delta, and according to so many in this forum works  just as well. Also we should not forget that out of ten people doing WW, maybe two or so are professional, they need the best quality tools,; for most of us hobbyists a good tool , used twice a month,  would be all we need. If the price of entry in this field gets to be too high, there will be less and less of us.

   Best to all

   John Cabot

2. 
   AlanMikkelsen | Mar 24, 2003 04:29pm | #23

   I have several Grizzly machines or Shop Fox machines and am very pleased with all of them.  I have a 1019Z band saw with a riser block and resaw 10" hardwoods without any problems.  I also just used a 3/16" blade to make a bandsaw box with 7" solid cherry.  Everything always comes out totally straight.  I also have a 6" Grizzly jointer, perfectly square and smooth running.  My only complaint?  It's not 8"!  I have the SHop Fox hollow chisel mortiser (1725 rpm) and it works great.  I do through mortises in 8/4 cherry all the time without any burning.  I had a Grizzly jig saw ($59.00) that was well built, especially for the price.  I gave it to my son when I replaced it with a Milwaukee (used), but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.  Also have a 22" Grizzly scroll saw.  It's not a Dewalt, but I only use it once or twice a year, which really doesn't justify the cost of a good one.  It runs fine, but does vibrate like a lot of other lower end saws. 

2. 
   riverr1 | Mar 15, 2003 02:21am | #5

   When it comes to a jointer, you might consider a serious look at a used industrial machine. Not unusual to find a 12 or 16 inch machine in the price range you are looking at. You'd more then likely need a phase convertor.

   Don

1. 
   riverr1 | Mar 15, 2003 02:33am | #6

   http://www.woodmachines.com/jointers.htm

   Here's a link to a 16 inch, 5 hp jointer for $750. This one is in NY. A lot of jointers around.

   Don

   Edited 3/14/2003 7:38:52 PM ET by Don C.

3. 
   Starrman | Mar 15, 2003 02:53am | #7

   I have a 6” Powermatic I will sell you at the show if you like. Are you talking about the show in Chantilly? It is not the long bed, but I will give it to you for a good price. It is a good machine; I just want a bigger one.

1. 
   Quickstep | Mar 16, 2003 07:49am | #12

   Thanks, Starrman, but I think I want the long bed........

4. 
   sailalex | Mar 15, 2003 03:18pm | #8

   I recently bought the long bed Powermatic and love it. Obviously it isn't an 8" but it does get around one of the negatives of a 6" jointer and that is a short bed. The bed is, as I recall, within an inch or two of the bed size of an 8" . This thing worked perfectly right out of the box and I have been using it without any problems. It was about $250 more than the 6" but to me the bed size was worth the extra bucks.

5. 
   rslatm | Mar 15, 2003 10:08pm | #10

   Also look at the Sunhill and Bridgewood. I hear Grizzly has been improving. Buying used can be trickier unless you know about jointers backwards and forwards. If you are not doing long boards the six inch might be all you need. People tend to have this attitude of this is the machine I will have for life. A good machine taken care of will hold value. A brand name will yield in a higher resale value. I've seen Delta contractor saws that sold for more than what the owner originally paid for them. Jointers, planers, and tablesaws have a better resale value than a lathe for instance.
6. 
   davealthouse | Mar 24, 2003 05:30pm | #24

   Chuck,

   I recently purchsed a compound miter saw, and like most average woodworkers budget is the biggest factor. After about 8 months of looking I finally made the purchase. I guess the best advise is what you are doing, getting opinions. With any purchase I found pros and cons on every tool. I think sometimes  it is like cars, there are those who are purist, only Ford or only Chevy, and those whose do the research and find what best meets your needs regardless of make or model.

   Ask some simple questions of yourself and the tool you are purchasing. What are you going to use it for, how often, wood widths and thickness. Are you a hobbist woodworker or do you plan on making a living at it? And the questions could go on. Don't do like I have done in some past purchases, bring the tool home use it for a month or 2 and then wish you had gotten the next size bigger or spent a little more. No matter what you purchase it will make what you are doing easier and reduce the steps to get a finished project. You could be using a hand planer or joiner to do the work, just think how much fun you would have then!! Have fun and make a lot of chips.

   Dave Althouse

7. 
   Quickstep | Mar 25, 2003 05:28am | #28

   Thanks for everyone's input. Often hearing the opinions of others really serves to cement my own opinions. With the benefit only hindsight can provide, it was funny to read my original post. After a great deal of agonizing, I went to the woodworking show where my local dealer made an offer on the DJ-20 I didn't (couldn't?) refuse. A good price with delivery included. I'll get the local support that they've provided over the years and help keep a local enterprise in business. I think we need that now more than ever.