After rereading John’s article and watching his video a half dozen times, I’m pretty well convinced that his bench might work for me. I doodled out the bench in SketchUp to clarify some things that in the article seemed vague to me. It is all much more clear now and at least as I’ve drawn it, most of the bench can be made from a stack of lumber that has all been milled to the same dimensions. Seems pretty efficient to me.
So has anyone else built one? If so, comments? Would you change anything? I’m a lefty but due to the lack of things made for lefties (ever try to find a left handed screw driver or hammer?) I generally do most things as a righty so I probably wouldn’t mirror the bench. Or should I? I’d just like to see what others have to say.
Edited 1/21/2008 1:34 pm ET by DaveRichards
Replies
Do you hold a saw in your right hand? If so, there's almost certainly no point to mirroring the bench. Otherwise...
The main reason I'm aware of for mirroring a traditional bench is to accomodate the task of sawing boards held in the front vise. On a left-hander's bench that vise is near the right side of the bench, which allows you to saw with your left hand while holding onto otherwise unsupported cut-off piece with your free hand.
I haven't paid much attention to John White's workbench design (not sure why in retrospect), so I don't know if the above is a consideration for that bench design. I'm a lefty who did mirror the design I used (the LV Modern Workbench with several modifications) and I am very glad I did so.
Mike
Go to the search function here on Knots and search for the bench by name, and you'll find dozens of discussions about the bench. Nice drawing.John White (I designed the bench, and no there aren't a set of drawings, but I'm working on changing that.)
John, thank you. Would my SketchUp drawing be of use? It really is much cleaner than that image lead you to believe.
Thank you for the offer, I may take you up on it.I am just deciding now on how to do the plans. I'm leaning towards hand drawing them, because I have a fair amount of formal training as a draftsman. At the same time I should probably learn how to draw with Sketchup or a CAD program and join the 21st century.John W.
John
We don't all have to comply with the demands of the 21st century. I still do all my cab and furniture drawings by hand, the ole' fashioned way.
:>)
Jeff
Jeff,
I prefer another method - using my head. (No I don't draw on it!) I envision features and construction methods and figure out how everything goes together. Then I do it again, this time using different joints, hardware, or proportions. I do this again and again until I have it all figured out. The features that I like often recurr in my visualizations. By the time I actually build the piece, I have already imagined it hundreds of times. All the details and most of the problems are already worked out. The only time my ideas hit paper is to convey my ideas to others or help me remember them!Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris
The drawings aren't for me, they're for the customer. I keep part sheets (that's what I call them) with all the math for cabinet parts. If you can keep sizes and measurements in your head for a cabinet job with over 100 parts, you have a better memory than I do.
Jeff
I would encourage you to produce a Sketchup drawing. In your video you stress that the dimensions are flexible and can be changed to suit an individual's needs. This is a powerful feature of Sketchup which adds tremendous value to using it. Of course, to make a solid model "stretch friendly" means using the tool with that objective in mind.
The way the bench is described in your article, the movable jaws of the clamps project 3/4" above the table top. The hardwood faces for the clamps will therefore be at least 3/4" thick. This means if you need to plane a board that is less than 3/4" thick, there will be a problem when the tool reaches the edge of the board.The only way I know how to deal with this problem is to place pieces of wood (buffers), which have a thickness less than the thickness of the board to be planed, between the board and the clamp faces.This solution seems very awkward and hokey to me; for example how wide should these buffers be? if they are too wide it might make the clamping unstable. Can you recommend a better way to dealt with this problem?-charles
John:I am borrowing some of your ideas to retrofit my old dinosaur. I have a 10' long bench made of yellow pine about 20 yeas ago. It is very basic -- just 2 long 2x12s with a heavy, non-racking base, all carriage-bolted together. Some time in the next three or four months, it will get a new surface of salvaged white oak (over the pine, but fastened to allow the differential in the seasonal movement). I will at that time ad one of your planing beams, a crochet, and will also use the pipe clamp screws for an end vise and a movable face vise.All the parts are on hand. I just have to clear up a few things in the queue.Joe
"Can you recommend a better way to dealt with this problem?" - Build a different type of bench?To a certain degree the height that the clamps project above the table can be adjusted by rotating them up or down. Wood blocks for the clamps can also be made of different sizes. I experience 2 problems with the system. As you mention, the clamping can be unstable because pieces tend to pop up out of the clamps. Sometimes I use a holdfast or a clamp to place downward pressure on my workpiece. I haven't tried it yet but beveling the edges of the clamping blocks may help. Someday I may route gooves in the channel that will contain the clamping blocks. My other issue is that the pipe clamps quickly vibrate loose when doing something such as hammering or running a sander. A set screw in the clamp could fix this. By the way, I used 3/4 pipe./David
“To a certain degree the height that the clamps project above the table can be adjusted by rotating them up or down”. This method will work for the tail stop part of the clamps, but not so easy for the part attached to the screw handle.I wish John White would participate in this exchange, I am sure his work is not limited to boards that are thicker than 3/4".One problem I hadn’t anticipated is the clamps quickly vibrate loose. This makes sense, since these pipe clamps are meant to be used mainly for glue-up purposes, so are not designed to withstand vibrations induced by a sander or hammering. I wonder how many others have this problem.-charles
Dave -
Very nice drawing! I wish I had done a search before starting my own version of John's NF bench. I think he started a movement without knowing it!
David
Would you mind sharing your Sketchup model? I'm trying to get better at using Sketchup and it would be a nice learning tool for me.
Thanks, Alan Miller
Dave,
I too am a lefty, and have been trying to figure out whether to mirror it or not. I'm leaning towards NOT.
1. The front vice is normally on the left, as previously mentioned, so a rightie can clamp a board and saw it with his right hand. With the bar clamp system, that's moot - put the bars whererver you want.
2. I suspect the end vice is normally on the right just to be on the other end from the front vice. I can't see any reason a lefty can't use the horizontal pipe clamps as designed.
3. The wedge for planing - that's another story. If you plan to wedge a door in it and plane with your left hand, it would be easier to put the wedge on the right end. But if you're going to secure it on the right end with a bar clamp anyway, then it doesn't really matter either.
Hello Dave,
I have built and use a four foot long, left-handed version of John's bench. Naturally, because we are 'that kinda guys', I modified it - at the outset - by not using so toxic a wood as Douglas Fir (look it up...!)- but a cheaper hard softwood easily available here in the UK, which I've treated with fifty/fifty Boiled Linseed Oil, shaken, not stirred, with Artists' Turpentine -'Linoxyn Mixture' It toughens the wood, enobles it with a honey lustre and a rich, impressive aroma (I get it on my clothes, they don't do a mens' fragrance in it yet....) Try it!
Next, I replaced the front horizontal and the planing grip with good resilient kiln-dried ash, which is our common local species (We DON'T have the variety you enjoy over there -he added sniffily...) I've also added a tail piece to the end, 8" wide after installation to give a bit more room to lay tools, etc. It's partly wall-mounted (Oh, and we don't have the space either....!) Oh!, and the Threequarter MDF is 18mm over here -European, see?
Problems, yes, I've had a few - to misquote Sinatra......... Aligning the transverse tube holes was a challenge because modern powerdrill stands are uselessly inaccurate, mine was a sixteenth out in an inch and a half! This is where networking comes in, and elderly friends tend to have better kit! (I gotta good one now! given by the Editor of British Woodworking, Nick Gibbs, nice chap! - - he had an old one he was chucking out! - shorter distances in the UK are some compensation....!)
Having overcome that one, I walked straight into a real bind with the longditudinal tubes, when I screwed the Pony Clamp adjusting heads (#5202 - the bit with the ring on it ) - to the oak (and therefore unforgiving) crossmember I think I had the whole thing a bit too high - there may be another cause as yet undiscovered - anyway, the tubes bind - and happy days! - the screws pull out of their sockets when I run the tubes into the bench, but they draw up OK, and whack back into place, this is all done in private....... so is tolerable at best.
What AREN'T tolerable are flopperty Pony Clamps on the front vice (or vise) - caused by:-
a) There being no means by which rotation is prevented (yet) and... It AIN'T easy to drill the three pin holes IN LINE -so jig that. (However, I'm going to make vertical grooves either side of the tubes in place of the holes, and make metal gates to slide down onto the tubes externally and....... locate onto a square top edge that is restrained by the underside of the MDF to fix the little beggars in the upright! - (Genius!, I just thought of that!) - and NO!, pinning the split pins WON'T do- I tried that!- a short thread cut stops the clampend #5203 out of line in relation to the hole you drilled in the tube, the bench is built and installed so the other tube going across won't let you fit the pin in an awkward place.....! ]:-)
b) You try to find an obliging (and sufficiently patient...) pipe-fitter who has the expensive kit to cut the threads to length ACCURATELY.....! (You see, the length of thread cut determines how far the clamp-end goes on to the tube AND STAYS THERE!!!-.which is called 'One Inch Steam Pipe' but is nearly threequarters O/D, but an inch I/D - did you know that? - no, nor did I!) - If you don't cut enough thread the Pony twizzles round -JUST AT THE WRONG MOMENT and hangs mockingly under the tube. MOST annoying - but fixable! Yellow Pages again methinks... (AND RIVETS!) Oh, and ANOTHER thing....! only buy the smaller half inch #52 Pony clamps like John did - you only need FOUR, by the way... Bigger toobs meanz bigger 'oles - means you ain't got enough wood on the verticals to accept 'em, unless you engineer for them - I'm glad I spotted that one in time! (Axminster Power Tools over here have discontinued #52 - I got the last ones!)
If you're using all this in an attempt to stave off the onset of Alzheimer's - there's more than enough to get your hitherto unused grey matter unwrapped from the greasy brown paper and into full and urgent service -believe me! - AND YOU HAVE'T STARTED MAKING THINGS ON IT YET!!!
More later, there's bound to be something else I'll think of when I get back in the workshop.... Have fun!
Rog
Edited 2/8/2008 5:19 pm ET by exeter
Rog, a tip about internet etiquette. Not a good idea to put someone else's email in a forum post. At FWW, it's probably not a problem, but at other sites that aren't password protected, bots (or whatever they're called) can pick up that email addy and insert it into a whole bunch of mailing lists.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Oh, Right,Thanks!
R
Rog, I know Nick. You're right, he's a nice fellow.
Thanks for the information.
By the way, you can edit your post to remove Nick's e-mail address. ;)
Cheers,
Dave
Thanks Dave, being new to this, and keen to promote Nick's new magazine, I spread the word. I sent him a copy and he thanked me for the mention. I doubt he knows the dangers either!
Thanks again,
Rog
I spoke with him the other night on the phone. He said he'd send me a copy so I could see what he and Steve are doing. Looking forward to seeing it.
Brilliant!,
I'm no expert, but this magazine is the product of a real passion for woodwork and woodworkers - at all stages - especially we 'improvers', who benefit from the friendly ethos. The bit I do know a bit about - the look, feel and content of a publication rivals that of Fine Woodworking. AND IT'S BRITISH, GAWD 'ELP US!!!
The proof for me is that I am progressing (at 62), gaining confidence to interact with others in the field, and initiative to have a go at doing it properly - with a growing desire to tackle things like dovetails(!), routing, joinery et al. -AND to help kids to enjoy 'cracking it' in wood too!
It works for me, I recognise something in Nick that eclipses the others, and supporting what he's doing by telling other woodies makes good sense to me....
Cheers!
Roger
I built the bench approx.60"L x 28" W the way John built his.If i build another one i would use MDF for the undercarriage and 5/8 or 3/4 ply for the top, it makes for a flatter surface.I also used both parts of the 1/2" pipe clamps, instead of drilling holes and using a washer.
Wow, nice drawing Dave! I think you need to add some authentic shop environment to that and render it though. Maybe a hand plane on the bench and some shavings will do the trick!?! Also, I have a left handed pool cue that I could sell you if your interested, funny thing, it works well for right handed people too, go figure ; ).
Russ.
Thanks Russ.
I've been looking for a left-handed pool cue. :D
Maybe I'll do that render. I need to draw a decent looking hand plane first.
Seems like this thread brought out a slew of new/newer posters...welcome
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