Is FWW wrong about bandsaw blades?
Well, “wrong” may be a bit strong given that one will allways get differing opinions but it seems like in their review of bandsaw blades (!/2″ for resawing) in the April issue (#169) they applied a consistent, non human dependant test and came up with ratings differing from the posts I was able to find in the archives here. Most seemed to favor Timberwolf, Lennox and the Highland Hardware ones in about that order. One fellow didn’t think there was a commercially available acceptable blade at all!
Here’s my quandry. I’ve just purchased a used Jet 14″ bandsaw. Incidently it’s painted blue so must be getting on a bit. Anyway, it works well enough and I’m planning to upgrade it with a riser block, Carter type rollers (advertised by Jet), phenolic inserts etc. Was just about to buy Timberwolf blades, 1/2″, 1/4″ and 1/8″, until I saw the FWW article. Perhaps this is case of one manufacturer not satisfying all needs/sizes of blades? Also I don’t know where they get their prices but I’ve not been able to find Timberwolf at the prices listed. Opinions?
Replies
Did you go to the timberwolf web site? Just call them and tell what your needs are and they will recommend the correct blades and tell you the price. You can order them then and put it on your credit card if you like. It is an 800 number.
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Thnak you. See reply to Forestgirl for more.
Definitely go to the Suffolk web-site to get your blades, and call as recommended. Be sure and let them know what kind of wood you're resawing -- there're different blades for green/wet vs. kiln dried.
The Wood Slicer looks like a great blade for resawing, although some users seem to think it dulls rather quickly. I'm just a beginner with resawing, but I like my Timberwolf blade. Plan to lubricate the blade for resawing to extend the blade life. Their web site and catalog both have instructions for lubrication.
I like the TW blades because they are designed to work with less tension that most other blades, and owning a 14" saw, I figure that's gotta be a help! They have 4 different series of blades, so it pays to look at the differences with relation to what you're actually doing.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thank you. I see that there is a thread on the Feedback on FWW forum that addresses my other questions. Sounds like despite FWW rating Timberwolf is my best bet. Had allready been on Suffolk site and their prices do not reflect those in FWW but what is - is!
The only blades i've ever used are Sears and Timberwolf. All I can say is that Timberwolf is one heck of a lot better than the Sears blades! Considering their lifetime, they are 1/3 the price of Sears blades.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Have used Olson, Timberwolf and the Woodslicer on a Jet 14" saw ( blue ) to cut red oak while remodeling a 5 story office complex. The Olson were junk, Timberwolf the best overall and the Woodslicer left the smoothest finish but did dull more quickly than the Timberwolf. I use Timberwolf on my 20" Cresent and 36" Moak (just sold it) and I'm satisfied with the cut.
About the Jet, don't waste your money on the Carter roller guides, you don't need them.
Thank you for the reply. See my responses to others for more info on where I am but could you expand a little on why not to get Carter type rollers? Jet have a less expensive version, about $85 I think, that I was planning on. Would I be as well of with new guide inserts and why? Thanks in advance. Oh! since you also have the blue Jet, do you know when they changed their color scheme?
Edited 2/20/2004 9:11:40 AM ET by LIMEYZEN
I think Jet started using white paint on WW tools in 1998 on the anniversry edition tools, just after Delta had the Great White edition Unisaw. Jet's metal tools were white.
Roller guids are a waste of money on a 14" saw. They cost 1/5 the price of a new machine and don't perform any better than the stock setup. Replace the Jet blocks with Cool Blocks or use hard maple shop made blocks. Proper tuneup and adjustment is more important than roller guids.
I checked the SFPM blade speed on mine, with a digital tach., and found it was only 2433 SFPM. I replaced the 6" drive shaft pulley with a 5" and bumped the SFPM to 3148. What a difference, cut like a champ. I also fabricated a 1/4" thick steel plate and mounted it under the trunnions to stiffin the mounting, less table deflection.
Thanks for the elaborations. I'll check into the availability of a 5" pulley here (western NC).
Santa brought me a riser block and a set of Carter Roller Guides for a Jet 14" I find the guides to be a huge improvement. I set the tension the same as for the original guide blocks.
Hmmm, interesting. See Howie's response to me (.15) and a previous response, decrying the need/usefulness of Carter guides for a 14" BS. Just goes to show that if one waits long enough there will allways be a different (and valuable) opinion! I'll track down the FWW article and see what it said. Thanks though for your reply.
Limeyzen,
I'm in about the same place as you....new saw, comments on here, article in FWW..which way to go? A few weeks ago I did buy 2 timberwolfs(1/2", 3/16") and have used them just a bit...seem to work fine. There was nothing in the article in FWW that makes me want to change blades. The only problem I may be having is 'barreling'...I have not had time to check this out. I thought it was me..but maybe it is the timberwolf blade not set up correctly.
Nice to know I'm not alone in this! I think confusion, like misery, loves company!
Hi BG. Barreling is usually due to insufficient tension (from what I've read). Tweak the tension a bit and see if it gets better. My experiments with the Grizzly 1019Z and both alder and wet maple saw no barreling.
This is something that should have been done in the tests for the FWW article. Rather than just follow, to the letter, the tension recommendation from the manufacturer, the test should have, IMO, started at that tension and then been repeated with more tension when barreling occured.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 2/20/2004 11:26:57 AM ET by forestgirl
FG,
Thanks for the heads up. I bought the timberwolf blades without any instructions...I knew from here that they should be set up (tightened) just past the whobble....but, I have been unable to achieve the whobble....especially with a 1/2" blade...lol. The other thing I wonder is if the blade stretches when it warms up?
FG,
I just called Suffolk....on their website....." Six rules about BS"...it's a 'how to'
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six_rules
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six_rules.asp
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
I did call them and talked with the a technical type. He diagnosed my problem as having the blade to loose. As I tightened the blade the problem disappeared.
The key from the instructions is setting the tension before you apply the guide blocks or bearing.....I did not know that...
thanks
Yep, those guides have to be backed off so you can see uninhibited flutter, LOL. (Sorta like a teenager's heart, ya know.)
Glad you solved the problem!forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
This is a very interesting discussion. Here's one more addition to the mix:
I recently received a promo package for MiniMax bandsaws which included a video tape demonstrating the MM16 by Mark Duginske. During the resawing demonstration, he sawed with the standard straight fence, and then switched to a single point fence (a fence with a slight rounded "bulge" next to the blade). He stated that when a blade begins to dull it wants to drift more than it did when it was sharp, indicating that the operator needs to be able to compensate for the change in drift by angling the workpiece slightly. This can be accomplished by using the single point fence. Otherwise, if you were resawing with a new blade, sawing thick dense wood for long periods, long enough to cause the blade to dull, you should recheck the blade for drift and reset the straight fence.
I had read Duginske's book and didn't recall him mentioning the change in drift when the blade is no longer sharp, so thought I would mention it in case someone else found it helpful. GP
I can resaw a 4x6x10' cants in 30 seconds per pass using a straight fence and be straight within .030". I don't know anyone who can do so with a single point fence. I don't even know anyone who can resaw within .060" with a single point fence.
What about Carbide tipped blades? Anyone have any experience with them?
The consensus among manufactures (and users) is that the carbide blades that are available today are best suited to 20" or larger BS. The thickness of the blade (.035) is too great for the smaller wheels and will fatigue much more quickly. Lennox is supposedly developing a carbide blade that is on a thinner band that will be more suited to the smaller (most) saws. Apparently the carbide blades have a great smooth cut but will break much more rapidly on a smaller saw and with the cost that's not what you want.
Good excuse to the significant other that you need that 20" MM!
Jim
BG, sounds like you got the blades at a store somewhere rather than direct from Suffolk? Suffolk sends a catalog with the blades, and it has the instructions in it.
I was going to give you a link to the article on tensioning, but they've redesigned their web site and that article ("The Six Rules of Sawing") doesn't seem to have made it! Even if it was there, I would still recommend that you get the Suffolk "catalog" (it's real small), as it has a lot of good bandsaw information in it. Give 'em a call! 1-800-234-7297.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It really is a shame that the FWW crew didn't pay any attention to longevity.
I've used almost all of the bands tested and none come close to bi-metal blades. These just last ALOT longer. Who wants to go thru the hassle of changing blades unnecessarily anyway. They only cost about twice as much as a cheap band and about the same or less than the 'hyped' ones.
Actually barreling is caused by blades that are sharper or set more on one side than the other. Although applied tension plays a role in diminishing this. Its a matter of applying enough tension to counteract the unevenness of sharpness/set.
Tom
Drift, not barreling, is caused by uneven set or sharpness.
Barreling is caused by a dull, under tensioned, or inappropriate blade being pushed into a curve by the force of the wood against the toothed edge of the blade. Badly set guides that allow the blade too much freedom to twist can also contribute to bowing. Typically, bowing is a result of several of the above factors being present at the same time.
The rules of geometry cause a long thin band being pushed along its edge to curve out to the side instead of simply straight back. This bowing to the side causes the barrel cut to start, but once a barrel cut starts, the blade will often start pulling in the direction of the bow, making the bowing worse.
John W.
>>Barreling is caused by a dull [] blade
So then you agree with me that barreling is caused by the sharpness of the teeth. Excess set will cause the blade to cut toward on side of the board. Whether it is along the length of a board (result: drift) or the width (result: Barrel cuts). A blade WILL want to twist if more pressure is put into the cut than it can stand, and tension will decrease this effect, but the evenly sharpened and set blade will not want to twist out and start barrel cutting to begin with, only if you make it by poor guide adjustment, excess feed pressure, or not keeping the board straight and upright.
Tom
I don't agree with you, an unevenly set and sharpened blade is not the same as a dull blade. An unevenly sharpened and set blade will cut at an angle to the side of the blade, but the cut will stay straight from top to bottom. If you angle the board slightly to compensate for the direction the blade wants to take, you will get a flat cut surface on the board.
If you don't correct for drift, the blade will drag in the kerf and possibly pinch stock between the fence and the blade, but even then it won't cause a barrel cut. If drift isn't accounted for the dragging and pinching will eventually overheat the blade, causing it to dull quickly, and that can lead to barrel cutting.
On the other side of the question, if you have the wrong blade or a dull blade, or the wrong tension or badly set guides, you will get barreling whether or not you correct for drift.
John W.
Edited 2/24/2004 12:50:42 PM ET by JohnW
Well, think about it, if the uneven set causes the blade to drift to one side when trying to cut straight, will it not try to drift to one side when you are resawing as well. It seems like the blades I've used with the most drift have also been the ones with the worst barreling.
Sometimes drift is also caused by the blade being angled relative to the table. Maybe due to crowned wheels, or improper welding, has anyone ever seen what I'm talking about?
Tom
BC, I don't think "drift" would create the same profile in the wood that is defined by "barelling." Drift would cause it to cut at an angle of some sort, but that smoothly rounded profile, IMO, would not be the result.
I don't see how a flattened form of ) could be created by drift.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 2/21/2004 12:04:38 PM ET by forestgirl
Thank you, John, I was pretty sure that true "barelling" is not caused by an unequal set to the teeth -- I've certainly never read or heard anyone else claim that -- but I wasn't ready to say it without checking a couple of m' books first.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Barreling is caused generally by the blade being pushed back too far before it hits the back bearing. The back bearing should be set so that the slightest pressure on the tooth edge causes the blade to immediately contact the back bearing.
If teeth on one side of the blade are less sharp than on the other side, drift will result.
There are specific steps and a specific sequence that should be taken to properly set up a BS. Just doing one thing frequently makes things worse. Best to get one of the bandsaw books by either Mark Duginske or Lonnie Bird. Either one will do. Both will show you how to set up and align your saw as well as explaining what type of blades to use for various cutting operations.
What's barreling? I'm sure I have it!
What, a tool hypochondriac?! LOL! "Barreling" is where, when you resaw a board on the bandsaw, the cut surface is slightly rounded rather than flat.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I knew it! I definitely have it. What's the cure...don't tell me....planing!
Let me suggest you go with Cool Blocks for blade guides. FWW did a comparison review of blade guides a year or so ago and concluded that the Cool Blocks were best for 14 BS's. If the saw was dedicated to resawing then the Ittura Bandrollers were OK. They specifically did not like the large diameter roller guides like the Carter. They raised the support point quite a distance above the workpiece thereby reducing blade control. This exacerbated an existing problem with most Taiwan saws where the lower guide assembly is already far below the bottom of the workpiece. Particularly when resawing, good blade control is key.
All in all, the Cool Blocks gave the most support, did not damage the blade if the blade mistracked and were not themselves permanently damaged when the blade mistracked.
Ah! Thank you for the follow up and apologies for putting you to the bother. I could've/should've done a search on FWW site for articles but only did one here for archives. So, thanks again.
Timberwolf blades are fine. Get a blade and start a project.
Yes Sir, right away Sir!! <grin>
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