I have taken on a job as a carpentry crew leader for a disadvantaged youth program…a bit of a different track than structural engineering. One of my responsibilities will be to bring a 1970’s woodworking shop back into good operating order. The machines are all powermatics (green) from that era and include (all 230V) a disc/belt sander, 20ish” bandsaw, drill press, table saw, 8″ jointer, 18ish” planer and a single stage dust collector (currently only hooked to the planer). I have only given the machines a quick eyeball and will be asking more detailed questions later.
These machines have been used frequently (but not extensively) by unknowing hands and are suffering accordingly. For example, the bandsaw is missing a lower guide bearing and the person giving the shop tour just said, “that’s the way it is, so the blade wanders a bit in thick stock.” In reality, all the bearings are shot from being improperly adjusted. Other than slightly worn tires and an unduly chewed up throat plate the machine is in excellant shape. So, this is question one…the bearings and shafts appear to be identical to my current grizzly. Was this a common, interchangeable part? I would like to order new bearings.
The shaft bearings on the sander are shot (very loud). Is a machine like this worth tinkering with, or should we budget new. I have a feeling that this one got used a lot since there are no hand planes or rasps anywhere to be found. The current maintenance person said that there had been a few handplanes, but they were so dull he threw them out! I be back with model numbers when I get them. Thanks.
Replies
Item number one, in any such environment, must be safety.
Think of those machines in this manner: Could you convince a jury that the machine was as safe as possible, and that the injury was caused solely by the person?
If not, then that machine is not safe enough.
(Please understand, I'm not referencing disadvantaged youth as the problem -- not at all. Just giving a reference point for what "safe enough" should mean.)
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
It sounds like you have a pretty challenging project ahead of you.
I would start by getting the nameplate data (make, model, and serial number) for each machine, then trying to obtain the original owners manuals. They should have detailed parts lists and the manufacturer may still carry replacements.
One possible problem could be that someone did some half-azzed repair work somewhere along the way and beat the machine into submission instead of fixing it correctly.
Congratulations and bless you for taking on a worthy cause.
Grizzly copied a number of successful designs. The parts may even have been made in the same factories but they may have also used metric instead of imperial. Your best bet is to get manuals.
I would give all the machines a good cleaning. You can locate some manuals at Powermatic.com. In general a lot of the bearings and parts haven't changed in years. Bearings are rarely custom so a good bearing local supplier should be able to help you identify and find suitable replacements. I've also had luck with calling a manufacturer and in your situation you might get some extra help. Another place to look is OWWM.com. Often users will upload manuals and part breakdowns. It's a great site for rebuilding old machines.
We had a Powermatic sander in a shop I used to work at. It screamed like a banshee. The owner didn't want to fix it so he gave it to one of the guys. He bought new bearings and viola. The sander ran quiet and like it was new.
Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
tuo,
Your post sort of rekindles a short memory from my past. I used to help a guy part time who was the shop teacher for a similar organization and his biggest complaint was lack of funds for the shop. Wasn't a priority.
You tour guides response, that's the way it is, so the blade wanders a bit in thick stock kinda gave me an impression that this same issue could be present with you.
This is just my first impression, not necessarily true.
The first thing(s) that come to mind are safety and what could/should be done for the woodshop that can be cost effective. And also provide a learning mechanism. Shop carts for stock, outfeed tables for machines, jigs that make things safer.
I would also look around the community for sources of supplies that might be free or relatively inexpensive. Cabinet shops where you can get offcuts and short stock - maybe for nothing.
The point I'm trying to make is that I think if you can show progress at little or no cost, that will go a long way to establishing yourself as an asset to them.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
With machines in as bad shape as you describe it would probably be worth getting the assistance of someone with expertise in maintaining woodworking machines to at least evaluate the condition of the machines. Skilled advice will probably save you a lot of money in the long run and the machines will be safe to use when you are done. Where are you located?
John White
Kudos to you, rock on!!
I would definately get with the manufacturers, they may donate some parts for such a worthy cause, also the newspaper doing an article, might stir some interest and donations.
Welcome to the 'club' of 'the guy who ran the shop before me is the south end of a horse facing north'. Yup, been there, done that.
MOST bearings have a number either etched on the side of the outer race or on the metal dust shield on the side of the bearing. These numbers, in almost all cases are industrial standard numbers, similar to the size marked on the side of a tire. The bearings are quite inexpensive and are available from many different sources.
Several sources are
Granger (http://www.granger.com), MSC (mscdirect.com ??) and Carr-McMaster (or is it McMaster Carr). Google them and you will find them quite easily. Try your local auto parts distributer. They may be able to supply bearings for you.
I've replaced all four bearings in a school shop belt sander. both a delta and a Yates -American. It's almost a no-brainer. All the bearings came out quite easily and the whole job was done within a very short time ( 1/2 - 1 hour). You will probably need a set of hex keys (metric and fractional) and a set of snap-ring pliers. The lower bearings almost fell out into my hands, I did not even need a bearing puller.
As others have said, parts lists for most machines are available on the internet. Check with your chairman to see if there is any money in a 'repair' line in the budget. See if you can get some petty cash, and what the rules are for petty cash, but don't be disappointed if there is no money from either source.
And finally, where are you located?? Some of us may know the name of a reliable repair person in your area.
SawdustSteve
I have a lot of grizzly stuff. I would reach out to grizzly with the sn & model and they could provide the part diagrams and just order the replacement parts. If you wanted to upgrade the guides, depending on age, carter makes guide kits for grizzly stuff. I know they make a kit for my 17hd. At the least you should be able to get the parts. Unless it's really old. Good luck it sounds challenging what you are about to do, but I bet it will be equally rewarding. Good luck.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Dr. James Deetz began the active interpretation of Plimoth Plantation. Deetz made sveral good decisions:
1) He would replace the mannequins with the 1950's era black "pilgrim clothes" with real people.
2) Instead of paying contractors to repair or build structures after hours (on overtime) he would use interpreters, provide them with period tools, and do it all in front of the public cheaper and in keeping with his educational mission.
Maybe you could try Deetz' second idea. Tear down those machines with the kids. Tear them down, paint them. Tune and adjust. Show them the catalogs and let them pick out the parts. Those kids may use those skills to fix cars in the future and will undoubtedly get a feeling of satisfaction when they cut a piece of wood and it works. To really do it right you should let everybody see and try what you have now.
Thank you everyone for the encouragement and advice. The carpentry crew kids aren't here until July 1, so tear down/rebuild with them will not be possible. I have pulled the bearings from the sander and they should be easy to find a replacement for. The jointer (probably not used too much) was fairly easy to bring into alignment and a new set of knives was available...no nails people! The manual recommends running a stone across the blades while running to joint them. That's scary! No thanks. The planer is all apart now. This machine saw heavy use and was way out of alignment. It will take some time this afternoon to get things right with the rollers, pressure bar, chip breaker cutter head, table and table rollers all leaning different directions. This planer has an optional knife jointing/grinding attachment that looks like it will made the knife tune-up quite easy. It is the "quiet" cutterhead with multiple staggered knives. I'll try to remember to bring the model numbers next time I come in to sit at the computer.
The planer has tuned up nicely and is making nice shavings again. The sharpening jig is amazing. First a stone is mounted in a dovetail slot and run back and forth with the planer running to joint the blades beyond any nicks. Then a grinding wheel with its own motor is mounted in the jig and each knife can be back ground individually with the cutterhead in indexed slots to keep the grinder in the right spot. The knives came out great. I wish my DW 735 had one of those! I'll try to take some pictures at some point. Its a great feeling to go from a planer that would not accept boards (pressure bar too low) to one that cuts in top form. These are great experiences that I've never had at home with mostly newer equipment.
I'm going to need to see some pics of this, keep us updated too, this sounds great
there's no need to reinvent the wrench
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