Replies

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 19, 2006 07:03am | #1

   Uncle Bill, I used conventional spray guns for ten years before switching to hvlp. I'm in the same boat as you, don't spray enough to justify expensive equipment. I bought a Porter cable HVLP from tyler Tools ($79.95) works great. I have sprayed shellac, laquer and oil based enamels. I haven't used the conventional gun since.this unit does not need a tremendous amount of compressed air, do not recall the specs on it. I use it with a 3 1/2hp 20 gallon tank rated around 9.0 cfm @ 40 and 8.7 @ 90

   I leave the compressor at 90 lbs, there is a regulator and gauge on the gun, most of the time I set it at 55 lbs. This is a gravity feed gun, besides the air and fluid control knobs there is another adjustment for the fan size. A lot easier than my conventional gun, on that gun I had to find the right combination of air and fluid to adjust the fan size.

   mike

1. 
   user-90134 | Jan 19, 2006 07:00pm | #2

   Thanks for the info Mike. I'll take a look at the Porter Cable. Does the gravity feed cup pose any problems getting under items when you are spraying? Do you ever wish you had the suction cup instead?

   Thanks Again

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 20, 2006 04:32am | #4

   Not much of a problem spraying under shelves etc. I turn the sprayer 90° to get the gun out of the way.Works fine in different positions.I suppose if PC had a hvlp with a suction cup I probably would have bought that. Mostly because the conventional gun I have is that type. After using gravity feed I really don't have a preference for one type or another.

   mike

2. 
   SimplyShaker | Jan 20, 2006 04:02am | #3

   I have the PC HVLP gun as well but haven't put this exact one to use. It's good to know what pressure you used at the gun. I haven't seen that mentioned in any instructions, books (I have the Taunton Spray Finishing book) or magazine articles (at least until a somewhat recent article in FWW about spraying).What viscosity cup do you use and what viscosity do you shoot for at typical 68 degree temperature? What lacquer product(s) have you used?Thanks.

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 20, 2006 05:01am | #5

   I have used Behlen laquer a few times. Works well, most of the time I spray shellac. I make my own from dewaxed flakes. I do not own a viscosity cup. I thin by trial and error. With enamels I start by adding 1 ounce of thinner to 8 ounces of paint. Then test spray, if it too thick I add one more ounce at a time. Usually one or two ounces is enough to thin the paint enough to spray. The cup holds 16 ounces so I double the formula for future fillups,If I did a lot of spraying of enamel I would spring for a viscosity cup. The cabinet shop I used to work for used zahn and ford cups, don't know what size orifices they used. I did not do any spraying for them.

   As far as the setting the pressure, depends on what your spraying, air hose size and distance etc. 55 lbs worked for me with the enamels. I could probably get away with lower pressures with shellac or laquer.

   mike

1. 
   SimplyShaker | Jan 20, 2006 05:16am | #6

   Thanks for the tips. I'm new to spray finishing so any advice is appreciated.

2. 
   Handrubbed | Jan 20, 2006 10:04pm | #7

   I'm no expert, but HVLP guns are supposed to be able to function at 17 lbs to meet federal guides.  55 lbs at the gun would get you a hefty fine in some states.  I'm not making a legal point here...don't really care.... but you should be able to spray at much lower that 55 lbs and get less overspray and bounceback.  Let me know if I have the facts wrong.  I am learning this too.

1. 
   mike4244 | Jan 21, 2006 03:42am | #8

   You may be entirely correct, I had no information where to start as far as the pressue setting. I called a friend of mine that uses hvlp. He told me to start at 55 lbs and work my way down til I had problems. I was spraying enamel at the time. The gun worked perfect at 55 lbs, so I left it at that pressure. I'm sure with thinner sprays like laquer and shellac I can cut the pressure down. I'll try it next time I spray.

   mike

2. 
   Crocusboy | Jan 24, 2006 02:28pm | #9

   I believe the health and safety standards being alluded to, pertain to the gun's exit pressure and not the inlet pressure.  To that end, most HVLP guns (I know that my Lemmer does...) have the pressure coming out at less than 10 psi.  That's why they call them High Volume Low Pressure systems.

    

   As an aside, I am now spraying water-based finishes exclusively, in my basement workshop.  I've tried Fuhr's lacquer as well as Minwax's polyurethane, both with excellent results.  If you'd like more info on my set-up, including my home-made portable spray booth, send me an e-mail.

    

   Marty

3. 
   Handrubbed | Jan 26, 2006 03:54am | #10

   Thanks, Marty.  I may just do that.  Spraying has proven to be the most challenging part of the hobby for me.  My results are less than thrilling even though I have decent , if not great, gear.  Honestly, lacquer in spray cans is not a bad way to go, imho.  Its the whole finish viscosity/gun set-up thing that is difficult.

4. 
   mudman | Jan 30, 2006 08:06am | #18

   I thought the pressure in the line is dependant on the gun. The federal regulations specify cap pressures, pressure at the point of atomization. I believe that is supposed to be 10 PSI. Some guns specify higher pressures than others depending on the internal design.

   Mike

3. 
   loucarabasi | Jan 29, 2006 01:25am | #17

   Mike, I agree totaly. All the low price guns are the same and spray very good. They are all the same guns with different names on them. Try Harbor freight tools, they have good prices. Walmart also has the same guns. Mike, you use alot less fluid then convention spray Too.

   -Lou

2. 
   tangomike | Jan 26, 2006 08:36pm | #11

   The finish on any piece is where everything that precedes it comes together. I can understand the reluctance to spend $400 on a premium gun, but when you consider that they don't wear out and how much of a difference a good finish makes, I think, and this is not a criticism, it may be a case of penny wise pound foolish.

   I am not a professional finisher either, but I got tired of my best work being a few degrees off because I wasn't satisfied with the finish so I invested in a top line gun, an Asturo that I bought based on the conversation with and recomendation from Jeff Jewitt. My total investment in this setup ran about $500, but the quality of my finish work notched up overnight. This experience leads me to the conclusion that a premium gun delivers better and more predictable results.

   Much of this also depends on what it is that you primarily use as a finish, that's why calling up Jeff at Homestead Finishing is a good way to start.

1. 
   user-90134 | Jan 26, 2006 09:14pm | #12

   You pretty much hit the nail on the head, (so to speak). I feel the same about all of my tools. You get what you pay for. No reason to think that spray equipment would be any different. Rather than ruin a project at the final stage of finishing, better to at least have the best equipment and know that the problem is in my experience and practice. I hate to buy anything twice. Good to hear someone else say it.

   Thanks for the tip on calling Jeff. Definately a good place to start.

1. 
   SimplyShaker | Jan 26, 2006 09:26pm | #13

   Personally, I send my large, "furniture" projects to a professional finisher to be oiled and lacquered. Smaller "furniture" projects, I use penetrating oil and then Waterlox. However, when I'm doing "cabinet" grade or quick-and-dirty projects for around the house and shop, I'd like to be able to finish those myself, QUICKLY. I have used Deft in a spray can on small projects with excellent results. My goal in spraying a finish is to simply equal what I get out of my Deft can. I'm going to try out the PC conversion gun in the next couple months. Thanks for the Jeff Jewitt link. I wasn't aware of Behlen's nitro lacquer. It is reasonably priced in reasonable quantities.

3. 
   Willie | Jan 28, 2006 03:20am | #14

   I use a Finishline III gun and it works fine.

   Can share the following experience with you:

   HVLP is not as easy as old conventional guns, but once you have mastered it, it's the way to go. If you don't know the right settings, you can actually generate five times more overspray than with a conventional gun and get real inefficient. If you get dialed in, there is almost no overspray, but this takes some experimenting and practice.

   For Lacquer I use the following settings:

   Items need a narrow pattern, I use a 1,3 nozzle.

   Wide pattern, I go to a 1,5 nozzle.

   Pressure at compressor = 45 PSI, pressure setting on gun regulator is around 15 psi.

   For Poly I go to about 19 PSI at the gun.

   If you are using a wide pattern spraying for example a table top, you need about 12 cfm from the compressor, to keep you going all the time.

   Cannot fault the quality of the gun, it should last for several years, no dripping, very well made. One of the positives is a plastic disposable liner (zip lock bag) which is filled rather than the cup, making cleanup possible in seconds and allowing upside down spraying. The cup needs no cleaning. This is what sold me on the gun.

1. 
   user-90134 | Jan 28, 2006 03:33am | #15

   Thanks Willie, thats the kind of information I was looking for. I plan on spraying a lot of cardboard before I attempt a real project. Lacquer is what I am using. Do you thin the lacquer a lot before spraying?

1. 
   Willie | Jan 28, 2006 06:24pm | #16

   Bill,

   I spray directly out of the can, no thinning. I have tried quite a few brands, but Deft remains my favorite. With some of the others brands, if it's hot and dry, one has to add a bit of retarder and perhaps thin a litte when doing small detail work.

   With Deft, the Finishline III has enough settings, to spray perfectly under any conditions.