Replies

1. 
   CStanford | Jun 27, 2004 09:59pm | #1

   The offcut should not be between the blade and the fence.  With a well tuned bandsaw the quality of a Minimax and running the workpiece against a tall fence you should be able to slice off fairly consistent quarter inch thick pieces.

   Assuming the face of the primary workpiece is flat (it should have been worked on a jointer or flattened by hand) one would simply run it against the fence moving the fence closer to the blade for each cut the necessary amount to produce a 1/4 thick piece.  In other words, this is not a 'free hand' cut, but a cut registered to the fence with a fence adjustment toward the blade of about 1/4" after each cut.

   I would flatten the face of the board registered against the fence and give it another try.  Check your manual for tuning - fence, blade and table parallelism and square (as those terms apply).

   If the bandsaw is in tune, the face being registered against the fence is flat, this should be fairly easy.

   Blade sounds fine (it wouldn't be a bad thing if it were wider but it will do), auxilliary fence sounds fine.  A 20" Minimax is plenty of saw.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/27/2004 3:02 pm ET by cstanford

2. 
   BG | Jun 27, 2004 10:16pm | #2

   Alison,

   Absolute guess....blade tension?  You should probably call the timberwolf people for advice...but in the past its turned out to be the blade is too tight...which is the opposite of what one would expect...
3. 
   JohnWW | Jun 28, 2004 12:38am | #3

   Alison,

   Get a book or a few magazine articles that thoroughly cover tuning up a bandsaw and go through the entire process of checking and adjusting the two dozen settings on a bandsaw that affect the quality of the cut.  It will take two a couple of hours but if you don't invest the time you will simply be stumbling around and might never discover the source of your problems.

   Once you set up the saw properly, it will then take only a few minutes to install the right blade, tension it, track it, set the guides and adjust for drift.

   Tropical woods are tough on blades, if the blade you were using was already getting dull, the rosewood could have finished it off and that could be the source of your trouble.

    

    

4. 
   RickL | Jun 28, 2004 12:39am | #4

   Another option is to have your wood cut by these folks...

   http://foremostwood.com/Cut%20Your%20Material.htm

   They use a frame saw and the yield is unbelievable. A frame saw has thin blades ganged in a frame and believe it or not the cut is so smooth it can be glued up right off the saw. The frame moves up and down and the blades are like bow saw blades. Old age technique with high tech German engineering.

1. 
   Adrian | Jun 28, 2004 04:09am | #5

   Wintersteiger? didn't check the website..cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

2. 
   Indigo1557 | Jul 02, 2004 01:23pm | #25

   Rick..thanks for the link.  I've bookmarked the site.  I think that doing one or two of these pieces out of bent lam. is fine to do in the shop, but if I had a bunch of these to do, this would be  a really useful service.  Give the amount of sawdust and how nerve racking this was it might be well worth the price. 

   Regards

   ASI

1. 
   RickL | Jul 02, 2004 03:49pm | #27

   I'm glad you think it's of possible use.  Haven't tried it myself but have heard good things about it. When you think of the quality...almost no kerf loss and the time saved it sounds like a great service.  Thanks for the reply. Sometimes it feels like I'm posting in vain.

1. 
   johnhardy | Jul 04, 2004 08:11pm | #29

   I checked the resawing service and don't think it'd be appropriate for what Alison needs here. They resaw 4/4 and 8/4 boards up to some width (8 inches?). The laminations would only be 4/4 or 8/4 inches wide. I suspect the laminations for the chair back are 10 to 12 inches wide. Or, am I missing something?

   John

1. 
   RickL | Jul 04, 2004 08:50pm | #30

   Allison mentioned resawing...

   (50" long x 6" wide x 1/4" thick)

   Foremost Wood does up to 8" wide so it sounded perfectly in range of Allison's project. The other reason I mentioned it was I'd be willing to bet others never heard of the service or the technique of frame saws and how you can go right from sawn board to glue-up and avoid the sanding and also have a better visual fit because of less kerf loss. I've also seen other frame saw manufacturers that can do wider although I don't have their names handy. Sometimes a suggestion is more food for thought and for brainstorming to add to one's store of knowledge for furure use.

   I'm always saving info I get from the trade journals for future use. I work in purchasing and problem solving so I pretty much already have solutions at hand before the problem comes up.

   No affiliation with them but you should see the samples of how nice a finish the wood has right off the saw. Call them for some samples and see for yourself.

   http://www.foremostwood.com

   Edited 7/4/2004 1:58 pm ET by rick3ddd

   Edited 7/4/2004 2:00 pm ET by rick3ddd

2. 
   johnhardy | Jul 04, 2004 10:33pm | #31

   I clearly didn't understand their web site. It does look like the "resaw" wood, and since it can be your own wood this looks great. I've bookmarked the site for future reference.

   Good resource, thanks.

   John

3. 
   RickL | Jul 04, 2004 11:07pm | #32

   Glad it's useful. I was looking at their site again and I can see how it's not real clear about the resaw thing. I think they are selling the service short or maybe they have enough business they aren't worried about it. I think it's a great resource to have in one's file. It's stuff like this you probably won't ever find in FWW. Those free trade magazines like Wood and Wood Products pay off with things like this.

4. 
   Indigo1557 | Jul 05, 2004 03:34pm | #34

   I sent them an email asking for them to send me samples and info.  Haven't gotten it yet, but will let you know more when I get it.  What I'm most interested in is price. I'll let you know what I find out.

   asi

5. 
   giametti | Jun 28, 2004 06:10am | #6

   I do a lot of resawing for bent laminations. If you are not getting consistent thickness on your rips, then you have something out of whack on your saw. Your 20' Minimax is about as good as you can get, so the saw itself is not the problem.

   Here are some suggestions:

   Check out the MiniMax-USA list on Yahoo groups. In the "Files" area is an extensive PDF manual on setting up and tuning the MM16 and MM20 written by some generous and helpful list members. You'll need to join the group to get to the "Files" area. There's plenty of useful stuff. You'll also like the group--many cordial, helpful and interesting people on it. Just like here. Let me know if you have trouble joining and I'll forward the file to you.

   Check the tracking of the blade on the wheels. A blade over 1/2" should just have the teeth off the tire.

   On the Minimax list, bandsaw owners are divided in their opinions on the Timberwolf. I've never been happy with it. For consistent, clean resawing, there is nothing that compares with a carbide blade. I run a 1/2" Lenox Tri-Master on my Laguna 16 SEC. In my work, I typically resaw to 3/32" with the offcut running on the fence. I thickness sand to 1/16" for my glue ups. Your 20" saw can also run a 3/4 or 1" carbide blade although they have a wider kerf. A carbide blade gives a smooth finish, and will track much straignter and more consistently than any steel blade. A carbide blade is every bit as improvement on a band saw as it is on a table saw. It's a pity that FWW didn't include them in their bandsaw blade test, though I agree that the Woodslicer is the best of the steel bands. (This same blade, dubbed the "BladeRunner" is available from Iturra Designs (888-722-7078, , E-mail: [email protected], no web site yet) for around $20, 2/3 the price at Highland Hdwe. Iturra's catalog has very detailed info on bandsaws, and is a "must read" so to speak. I bought my Lenox blade from them.

   You may wish to invest in a tension gauge. Iturra Designs sells one for around $135. I use a dial indicator to measure blade stretch. The quality of my cuts improved markedly after I started measuring actual blade tension. The tension guage built into the saw gives you no useful information about the actual blade tension. The only way is to measure the stretch of the blade.The simplest way is with a tension guage, but it can be done using a homemade guage using feeler guages. There's info on this on FWW's site, taken from John White's book and other articles on bandsaw setup. I substitute a dial indicator for the feeler guages. If using the Timberwolf "flutter test", try increasing tension a bit beyond when the fluttering stops. The blade and saw can take it

   Unless the curves are very gentle, 1/4" laminates are probably too thick to glue up sucessfully, at least in my experience. I would go no thicker than 1/8" on gentle curves, and much thinner on complex ones. I cut a shallow "V" on the edge of the board so I can keep the laminates in order.

1. 
   Indigo1557 | Jun 28, 2004 05:56pm | #7

   This morning I had the laminate slice on the outside of the blade (not between the blade and the fence and I re did the blade saw tension.   The results were much better, but I think that my blade is dull - even though they are relatively new.  It were smoking like crazy and I was ready for things to catch fire!  Anyway, I stopped and will get them sharpened and also talked to Timberwolf.

   They think the blade type is fine...but did comment that the moisture content (the cocobolo is air dried to about 10%) and Tampa is very humid, won't help much.  I'm also getting alot of pitch on the blade (thus the smoking I think), again this is from the moisture content and the oils in the wood.  I'm  not sure quite what to do about this. 

   I did order an upgrade blade (bi metal), that will be here in a couple of days, they quoted me $220 for a carbide blade !! so I'm definately going to check out the $20 carbide Giametti mentioned.

   Giametti...will check the yahoo files...I'm already a member but generally loft and scan.

   Many thanks for the advice every one...I'm going to keep at it.

   Cheers

   Alison

1. 
   CStanford | Jun 28, 2004 06:11pm | #8

   Clean the blade with mineral spirits or some other blade cleaner then spray it with Dri Cote.  Spray it while it's running.  Clean it while it's shut off :-)

   Again, make sure the face being registered to the fence has been over the jointer and is FLAT - no bow, cup or twist.  This face is repeatedly registered to the fence until you cut your last section.  Therefore, it's worth the trouble to assure flatness.

   Use feather boards to keep the stock tight to the fence.

   You do need to keep the saw tuned.  If you don't have a manual I'd call a Minimax distributor and get the one specifically for your saw and go from there.  It's probably available as a PDF file.

1. 
   Indigo1557 | Jun 29, 2004 03:03am | #10

   CS...

   I cleaned the blade this afternoon and had much better results for about two cuts...and then pitch build up was just as bad if not worse.

   I had cleaned the blade using a wire brush, a pick axe would have helped, and some green stuff.  It was baked on.  Very very tough to get off.  I then wiped it down with PAM. 

   I have some dri coate sp after I"ve cleaned it again tomorrow.  My question is will mineral spirit break the crud down better?  I was thinking of trying oven cleaner - seen that suggested on knots before.  Would this damage the blade in any way?

   thanks again

   Alison

1. 
   Indigo1557 | Jun 29, 2004 04:14am | #11

   Should have done a search before I posed that question. 

   Seems like I might be feeding the board too slowly and thus increasing friction...

   Also read lots of posts about pitch removal..oven cleaner, tsp and water and using chain saw bar oil and kerosene to lubricate the blade rather than PAM...I'll try all of these tomorrow.

   Cheers

   Alison

2. 
   Crunk | Jun 29, 2004 06:19pm | #13

   If the face registered to the fence is flat and the saw in tune (blade properly tensioned and aligned) the cuts should be a walk in the park with the saw you own. 

3. 
   AlanTurner | Jun 29, 2004 07:39pm | #14

   Alison,

   I disagree, without any basis of course, with those recommending that the 1/4" slice you are looking for is to be on the outside of the blade. I resaw a bit, and always, even on a narrow cut, set the fence only once, and the desired veneer is between the blade and the fence. This way they are all the same thickness. Do joint after each cut.

   In terms of blades, I run a 20" Aggizani, which is very similar to your 20" MM. I use a Lennox 1" carbide, and I think it was about $170 (162" I think). I believe that you will find that Ittura is aobut that price. I have had mine on my Aggi for about 2 years or more, and it is still sharp. It is well worth the price, given its longevity.

   Rosewood is brutal on metal. I just made a table out of Bolivian Rosewood, which I am told is not a real rosewood, and it trashed my chisels. On the saw, no problem.

   A quick story, which I should post separately, I suppose. It would be called: Dumb and lucky. I was ripping a pice of oak for a jig, old stock from an estate I bought, and failed to notice that a drywall screw had been broken off. I cut it nearly in half, the long way. I thought that I had ruined the blade, of course, what with the case hardened metal. I shut it down as soon as I saw the sparks. I then examined the Lenox blade, and it seemed OK, which I did not believe, but went back to cutting later, including resawing 6" wide Bol. Rosewood. Cuts fine. Hard to believe. I saved the chunk with the screw, just as a reminder to be a bit more careful, and for a laugh now and then.

   One thing that I do do on a resaw cut is consistently run it with a strong featherboard. I made mine of UHMW, 1" thick. It needs to be reset for each cut, of course. I have tried to attach a pix of the featherboard.

   I would htink that David Marks knows exactly what he is doing, but 1/4" seems plenty thick for Bubinga, and perhaps even more so for your Mexican Rosewood. It will be interesting to see if you can get his bends out of that thickness.Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

   
4. 
   reinvent | Jul 07, 2004 05:17am | #35

   I second s4s recomendation on the lenox blades. Worked in a shop that had one going three years and it went through miles of stuff. If you are going to do this sort of work more than once they are worth the money.

   Couple of ideas you might try. When I had to do alot of solid veneer cutting , I used a tall wedge pointing at the blade. That way if the blade started to drift I could counter steer the stock to compansate. I think part of your problem is that the blade wants to take the path of least resistance, like following the grain. So something else I do is make a cut on the table saw 1/2"-1" on both edges of the board I am going to resaw. That helps the bandsaw blade to track consitently (most of the time) and gives you a visual refrence to follow.

5. 
   CStanford | Jun 29, 2004 02:21pm | #12

   If it's that dirty, go ahead and use oven cleaner.  Don't use the Dri Cote until the blade is clean.

   If you use oven cleaner, take the blade off the saw and spray it outside.

6. 
   KeithNewton | Jun 30, 2004 03:46am | #15

   I read your post the other day, but didn't have time to respond then, and now I don't remember if you stated how much HP you have on this saw, but what I have read today, sounds like you probably don't have enough horse power to achieve a fast enough feed rate to keep the blade to from heating up. This applies to all of your woodworking tools, Whenever you start to cut, listen to the tool.

   You should hear a drop of RPM's, if not you may be feeding too slow. If you feed too fast the motor will stall, or after 5 minutes the motor protection will break the connection, you are still too fast, but you should try to feed fast enough that each tooth takes as large a chip as the gullet is designed for.

   The harder and drier, and thicker the wood, the fewer teeth are desired, and the more power needed.

   I boosted my 36" bandsaw from 5 HP to 7.5 last year, and now wonder now why I waited 20 years to do it, but I do all of my resawing on my wood-mizer sawmill.

   The best advice I think I can give you though is to consider buying your face veneers from a veneer supplier, and using something like bending ply for the core. Life can be easier. You don't have to make it needlesly hard. Also you might check out www,vacupress.com , if you are not using this tecnique. Cheers K

7. 
   CStanford | Jun 30, 2004 02:51pm | #16

   This is a WORLD of difference in a bent lam made from solid laminations 1/4" thick and veneered bending plywood.  The latter in more than one circumstance would not be a substitute for the former.

8. 
   Indigo1557 | Jun 30, 2004 04:24pm | #17

   Hi all..quick update. I'm waiting on the new blade to arrive, hopefully today sometime, before I attempt the next set of laminations. 

   With the ones I did a few days ago, I did have to send them through the planner on a sled to get them all close the same thickness.  So far, it seems that bent laminations result in a lot of sawdust and seem to take a lot of time - I'm hoping the end result will be worth it. 

   I have struggled with the idea of  not having the lamination slice  between the fence and the  blade....if you do you get same thickness every time...why wouldn't this be appropriate?

   Did finish up the seat and the legs today and am very pleased. They need sanding, but I love it when I can see the piece starting to come together.

   Cheers

   ASI 

9. 
   CStanford | Jun 30, 2004 05:23pm | #18

   Do what works for you.  I've always jointed one face and kept it registered to the fence.  This procedure results in the cut offs being on the outside of the blade.   As I said before, the fence has to  be moved for each cut but I never found this to be a big deal.  On a well-tuned saw, this method will result in nice, consistent lams.  Perhaps your method will as well.

   The thought of registering a bandsawn face against the fence, which is implicit in the method you are suggesting, runs somewhat counter to logic in my opinion.  Perhaps I'm imputing common tablesaw techniques to the bandsaw when I shouldn't. 

   Again, all I can tell you is what has worked for me in the past.

10. 
    CharlieP | Jul 01, 2004 03:31am | #19

    I routinely joint the face that will be registered against the fence, but cut each strip along the fence.  As the cut completes, it seems like the finished piece would be stuck between the blade and the fence, but the stock easily traps it and pulls it the rest of the way through.  After a quick pass on the jointer, I am ready for the next cut.   When the stock gets thin, I use a push block that is basically flat with a slight hook on the trailing edge, so am able to get near 100% use of the stock, without adjusting the fence. 

    I have been interested in the discussion that suggests this is bad.  It has worked well for me, and seems safe, so if there is a potential problem, I want to learn... I think I am still trainable!________________________Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood

11. 
    CStanford | Jul 01, 2004 04:37am | #20

    As I mentioned in my last post, I think the relative safety of the bandsaw tolerates more than one technique for resawing.  I have simply posted the technique that I have used when making these same kinds of cuts.  I suppose habits die hard - I joint one face and register that face to the fence and make my cuts, much like one would if ripping strips (registering the jointed edge) on a tablesaw.

    Use what works for you, as long as you maintain a safe environment.

    Edited 7/1/2004 7:33 am ET by cstanford

12. 
    SgianDubh | Jul 01, 2004 12:24pm | #21

    Interesting that no-one has mentioned the use of a single point fence for deep ripping, like the one in the attachment. I frequently use one like this. I set the width required from the blade to the single point fence and cut off strips as required after flattening the face of the wood between each cut.

    That usually means a strip cut from each side, then flatten again, then thickness followed by two rip cuts. The only extra tool required is a marking gauge set to the required thickness. Mark the line before each cut.

    The advantage of this system is the ability to twist the front and rear of the board about on the bandsaw table to account for any blade deviation from the required line. Slainte.  RJFurniture

    
13. 
    AlanTurner | Jul 01, 2004 03:20pm | #22

    Richard,

    When I had a Delta 14" with riser, and used it for rewawing, I did use a single point fence. But since acquiring the Aggi, and running a 1" carbide Lenox, I have not needed to goof around with one. The fence is set, and there is no drift. That, or the dealer set the fence to the drift. Either way, it has not required any adjustment.Alan

    http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

14. 
    SgianDubh | Jul 02, 2004 01:05pm | #24

    Alan, I say if you don't need to use a single point fence, then don't use one.

    Still, it's useful for those that might not know the trick to be aware of it, which is why I brought the subject up. I use one quite frequently and it's got me out of a hole many a time. Slainte.. RJFurniture

15. 
    Adrian | Jul 02, 2004 03:35pm | #26

    Yup, me too..cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

16. 
    Dave45 | Jul 05, 2004 07:49am | #33

    My Jet 14" bandsaw came with a 'dohickey' very similar to your drawing, but mine attaches to the fence to provide the single point of contact.  The owner of the tool store told me it was for use on long resaws where it was sometimes necessary to 'steer' the board to hold the line.  So far, my resaws have all been under 36" and I haven't used it.

17. 
    johnhardy | Jul 04, 2004 08:08pm | #28

    I also have the offcut on the outside, and have found that putting a piece of blue masking tape on the table is a good aid in resetting the fence. The tape marks where the outside of the board goes. All I have to do is move the fence, with the board, until the board registers against the edge of the tape.

    This makes the resawn pieces very uniform in terms of thickness.

    John

18. 
    Indigo1557 | Jul 01, 2004 05:33pm | #23

    Huge sucess!

    The new blade (bimental 1" timberwolf) arrived today and I dricoated it and tensioned v. carefully.

    I cut the remaining two planks of cocobolo this morning with the laminate between the blade and the fence.  It worked perfectly.  The laminates are consistantly sized, I was able to cut them all at 3/16ths - there was no blade drift ...what joy! To get something right is so cool.  Thank you for helping me get there everyone.

    I'm still astonished by the massive amounts of sawdust...I have the dust collection, air cleaner, fein and respirator all going and still having to stop to clean stuff out.

    I'm sending my other two blades off to be sharpened asap. 

    By jove I think she's got it!!

    Cheers all

    Alison

2. 
   giametti | Jun 29, 2004 01:00am | #9

   Sorry

   The woodslicer/ bladerunner is not carbide. It's a variable spaced spring steel blade--the tooth spacing is partly 3 tpi and 4 tpi. This reduces vibration and noise markedly. It's a very sharp blade, but being spring steel it dulls a little quicker than many other steel blades. It gives the best performance when new, though. Cocobolo will be brutal on any steel blade.

   Typically, a carbide blade will cost about a buck and inch. There isn't much cost difference between 1/2", 3/4" or 1" that I know of.