Replies

1. 
   CajunDan | Mar 23, 2005 08:45pm | #1

   That is a very good question to answer for several reasons:

   First, how much hand tool woodworking do you intend to do? Hand tools are much cheaper than their powered counterparts. The handtool woodworking course I took at Homestead Heritage used about $150 worth of basic (but VERY well-tuned) equiptment.

   Second, if you have a limited shop space to spread out, benchtop tools make much more sense than stationary tools. You might consider combination tools, like Shopsmith (that's how I started), or Minimax. The Festool system is also designed for limited space.

   Third, a lot of it depends on what is your perception as a good tool. Some recommend contractor's saws (hundreds of $), others only cabinet saws (thousands of $), while others insist only European saws (several thousands of $) are worth the money. How do you feel?

   I guess the best answer I can give is for you is to ask what kinds of projects do you intend to build? What will be your first project? What tools do you absolutely need to build it? Tool Talk is a great resource to help keep you from wasting money on junk.

   Sorry for the long reply, but everyone has different needs and I thought you deserved a thoughtful reply.

1. 
   ChestnutWwking | Mar 23, 2005 10:09pm | #2

   CD,

   Thanks for your response.  I've done a number of projects already. In fact I've even completed projects in my basement that I've had to take a part and put back together again in order  to get them out.  I see myself doing a lot of cabinet building and also other pieces of furniture.  I have a nice start on tools: Good circ saw, miter saw, routers, cordless drill, sanders, jointer, biscuit jointer, 12" planer, etc.  I'm looking at rounding out my shop: Drill press, bandsaw, dust collection and air cleaner. 

   I have looked at the Festool line and would consider it even more, but I already have a good number of high end tools that I would just be buying the same tools from Festool.  Now I know that they are not the "same" tools, but my wonderful wife doesn't and so when the order would show up she wouldn't take to kindly to having me spend the kind of money that Festool costs to get as she says "More of the same!"

   Thanks,

   Mike

1. 
   CajunDan | Mar 24, 2005 05:32am | #4

   O.K., I think I see, now. You are not a newbie, and you pretty much have a good selection of quality tools from earlier projects.

   From your original question as to budget, I surmise that you are interested in rounding out your shop now instead of as you go as klink suggested.

   If you ask 10 woodworkers, you will probably get 20 answers, but here is my 2 cents:

   Get dust collection sooner, rather than later. Besides the health issue, its just plain more fun working in a tidy shop.

   Here is a summary of my shop:

   PM66  $1700 (moving sale - great price); Delta 14" BS (1 3/4 hp anniverary ed.) $900; Delta 6" jointer (would like 8") $400; DeWalt 733 portable planer $400; Jet 650 Dust Collector ~$250; Chinese Benchtop drill press (piece of junk, but gets the job done $29; Dad's 1947 Shopsmith 10E priceless. That's about it for power tools except for routers, circular saws, miter saw, and other things you probably already have. All told, about $3,000. If I built cabinets, I would consider a HD shaper ~ $2,000 and a panel saw ~ $2,000.

   Does this help?

2. 
   klink | Mar 24, 2005 04:48am | #3

   build as you go! get it when you NEED it! (Or if its a deal you can't pass up) Thats what I did! Now I'm ready to upgrade some of the cheaper equipment,  but thats ok, its paid for itself several times over! GL and jump in!

    

   Klink

3. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 24, 2005 10:31am | #5

   First of all.. NEVER count on your JOB.. I did that for 30 years.. Many awards and got laid off..  Well...

   Don't quit your job.. Do your thing in spare time (ASK WIFE FIRST) and see what happens in a year or two from now...

   I love my day job as a band director .. MUSIC!  I have a tin ear but you may like making musical instruments???

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/24/2005 3:33 am ET by Will George

4. 
   SBerruezo | Mar 25, 2005 06:18am | #6

   Hi Mike,

   I didn't see a tablesaw on your list of goodies...maybe I overlooked it.  Any way, from everything I hear and from experience I would say that a tablesaw is an essential and versatile piece of equipment.  You and do a lot with a Skilsaw, but it's more accurate with a TS.  Look at Grizzly tools.  I've heard great things about them, like quality, low price, and customer service.  I think it's http://www.grizzly.com.  Left-tilt is good...safer.  Cabinet saws are less vibration, but more dinero.  But anyway, mostly I wanted to tell you about Grizzly.

    

   Young, poor, and eager to learn

5. 
   murrayF | Mar 27, 2005 06:52pm | #7

   Mike woodworking is kind of like boating "a hole in the water into which one pours money". Just as you wouldn't take a bass boat on an ocean cruise, you don't need a lot of tools to build a dog house. Determine what you want to do then look at how others are doing it then figure out how you're going to do it. You are off to good start in saying you don't want to end up with junk. Good luck we all have our little collections of widgets and gizmos 'that were going to make tasks easier' gathering dust at the back of the long forgotten shelf. Have fun!!

6. 
   cowtown | Mar 28, 2005 05:20am | #8

   mike:

   I'm sure any number of folks will tell you what to spend and how to spend it to set up a WWing shop.

   I'm gonna provide another perspective. As a band director, you obviously at least have some kind of more-than-passing fancy with music.

   why not make a long term plan to get into the musical instrument repair business.

   You got a basic knowledge of WWING, you got a knowledge of music, what is there to do otherwise except learn a little of metalworking, and a tad of accounting, business planning etc.

   I know I'd get flamed by instrument makers for my simplistic assessment of the trade, and I'd probably be OK to be flamed, but there you are, band director with a gadzillion clarinets to be repadded every summer. Dimgs amd dongs in brass instruments to be hammered out. A golden opportunity to learn by error.

   Every summer, when you may be officially "employed" but seem to find a heck of a lot of time on yer hands, you got the time to practice on instruments that yu can pick up cheap at pawn shops.

   . I dunno what the IRS tax regulations are for expensese related to professional development, but it is entirely possible that yer education to become an instrument repair person could not only be tax deductible under yer current employment, but also perhaps even paid for by them. . Not only would some of the summer courses in instrument repair not interfere with yer current employment, but they could also augment it even if yer employer ain't willing to pay for em. This endeavour could also lead to a second income, or a seperate business, which could last well beyond yer "official" retirement.

   suppose you do that, then maybe all the tools you need to indulge yer wwing hobby become "tax deductible". Push it a little, and being in the muscial/instrument/repair business, maybe all yer music becomes likewise so (Hey, it ain't only walmart that can justify MUZAK as a justifiable expnese eh)

   Ever looked at the tools a piano tuner requires? A mere suitcase and the family car. Then go assess the level of competition. It ain't really overwhelming. Particularly if you know music- which is not exactly a common knowledge to posses.

   What I'm suggesting is to translate the abilities you have through the wishes you have to go somewhere that you want to go, and then beyond that. .

   For 15 years now I have been cognizant of the interplay of WWing and music, and am cognizant that I don't have the abilities to translate it into any real benifet to myself, as I am lacking in the music section. I must confess to having tuned and refinished one piano, but merely from the interest point of view, certainly not the $$ involved.It was my first step that never got followed by a second.

   In my limited lifetime I have been advised by more than one person to embark on a career that entails wwing profficiency and manual skills to go one step beyond, because as long as you limit yerself to hammer and nails technology you are competing with a much larger group than if you specialized in something akin to, yet a step above WWing.

   Just think, come a recession, anybody with a hammer becomes a carpenter. Notso for piano tuners and instrument repair. Music continues unpreterbed by recessuions, unlike the domestic trades.

   To me, mr Band Director, you got a step up on the rest of us Woodworking plebes. You got got a knowledge of music, you got access to a source of instruments needing repairs, you got friends in the business who will likely tolerate a few mistakes, you got an employer who may subsidize you on the learning curve, you may be eligible for tax breaks while you learn, you got a time schedule which will likely allow you to pursue yer education without quiting yer day job,and enjoy tax perks to boot perhaps, you got contacts to help you develop a business, and persuming you at least have some love of music, you is in a position to develop a challenging parallel career outside of the one you already have.

   One Caveat- if yer the band director, you gotta assess who the compeition is, and whether you'd get yerself into a confict of interest situation (small town-watch out!)

   So run this stuff by yer self-employed dad, let him cogitate on it for a week or so. To me, no obvious impediments are there, you got yerself a golden opportunity. Even if you cannot go into business fer yerself where you are, in ten years you may be somewhere else (or wish to be).

   Morevoer, as a band director, you got a network to use to assess whether others in the land are considering, or have gone, the same route. You got access to "folks in the know" who can tell you if this is a smart idea or not.

   And that, mike, is way more marketing info, more development support, and more access to a limited marketplace than 99% of self emplyed wworkers have or will ever have. perhaps you may have never equated yer talents into entry into quite a specialized marketplace, but you have the entry qualifications while folks like me don't .

   All that remains is to go there, do it, keep yer life in balance, and have fun enuf so as to remember that music is enjoyable.

   Consider it.

   Eric in Cowtown

1. 
   notDusty | Mar 28, 2005 06:37am | #9

            Eric ,

                    You have given much wise thoughts to Mike . A good friend of mine is an instrument repair genius . He has been doing repairs for about 40 years I guess . I am  a furniture and cabinet maker  . This guy's abilities are so far beyond what I do it is not even close . You hit it right when you said learn metal working , well IMO precision machinist fits the qualifications . My pal is a musician as well and plays every band instrument , unbelievably talented . Honestly Mike could learn the finer points of repair work but it takes many many years to become a true master instrument maker . I saw this guy make a part for a flute on a machine lathe with some overhead radial drilling head attachment he made , he was turning a piece of Grenidilla (sp) wood and held tolerances to within a few thousandths.

                           regards            dusty