So I had run out of the plywood that I got from my lumber supplier, so I got sheet from the Home Depot. I was cutting it down this morning and I noticed that the sheet had delaminated! It was about a two inch deep de-lamination on both sides of the cut piece across about a 1/3 of a 45 inch length. My wife suggested that I return it, but I decided to squeeze glue into it, clamp it and go for a bike ride. Anyway, has anyone else had horrible plywood from the Depot? I’m not even sure where this was made, but there were a lot of empty voids in it as well.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
There's been a number of threads and numerous posts detailing the exact same scenario with ply from Home Depot (Lowe's, too). It find it is suitable for utilitarian stuff -- shop cabs and such -- but pretty much useless for much else. I think it would be great if HD and Lowe's took a gander at the comments about them posted here on Knots -- maybe they'd rethink their supply chain and product line.
I hate to give you a smart-assed answere here, but the first task is finding someone to talk to, then finding someone at HD who knows what the hell delamination is, and thirdly, finding someone who cares. Once you do all that, well, sad to say your day has ended in extreme frustration and you leave the store vowing never to return. If you've followed the HD stock recently, and followed all the issues surrounding the departure of the CEO who was to collect millions in some sort of buyout scam, critics point out quickly that customer service went in the dumper under his tutilage and the stockholders told him to take a hike. Unfortunately, it will take a long time and lots of convincing to get me back in there.
I had that same problem with some HD maple plywood a couple of years ago and haven't bought any of their plywood since then.
I had bought three sheets and made two cuts in one of them. The first cut had delaminated over half the length and the second cut was almost as bad.
I loaded the pieces back into the truck and took them back. When I got to the return counter, the young lady said that I couldn't return the cut sheet because I had cut it. I politely (she was just doing her job) pointed out that the problem was invisible until I made the cuts and asked to speak to a manager. Instead of a manager, I got someone from the lumber department who rather rudely told me that since I had cut the sheet, I owned it and couldn't return it.
Things escalated from there and I finally took a refund for the two uncut sheets, and left the pieces on the cart. I haven't bought a sheet of HD plywood since.
HD gets very little of my $$ for the same reasons (and more!)
that you folks have stated. I only buy very generic things
there (screws, nails, glue, etc). I will do my best to buy
what I can from the local hardware stores & lumber yards
and paint stores when possible.Both HD & Lowes don't care about their customers - only
on what best deal they can score from supplier "X" for any
given week. Which explains why you buy product "A" there
one week, but can't find it at their stores the next week.I can't say enough negative things about each of them.
There's more productive things I choose to do with my
time than spend an hour citing some experiences.Vote with your dollars and help keep the little guys
in business.Bill-http://www.franklinwoodwright.com
"Both HD & Lowes don't care about their customers..."
That's not true. They care very much about their customers. They want their customers to come back again and again, and so they do exactly what it takes to keep them doing so. For the bulk of their customers, that means lowering prices, even if it means lowering quality standards. Because, no matter what you or I think, most of their customers simply don't care very much about product quality, and will keep coming back as long as the prices are low.
You can't blame them for employing extremely successful marketing and selling strategies.
-Steve
Hi Steve,You stated: "You can't blame them for employing extremely successful
marketing and selling strategies."You are 110% correct. I don't blame anyone for making
money/profit. I applaud people & corporations that make
large profits. I don't make that kind of money & would
love to reap the kinds of profits the big box stores
get. Shrewd negotiations and well planned marketing
work & work WELL!What drives me crazy is the mentality of the consumer.
My father & grandfather demanded quality & got quality.
Manufacturers cared about the quality of the products
they produced. (who here doesn't think the "old"
Craftsman table saws are BETTER than what Sears
produces today?!)We all complain but we don't DEMAND better quality
as consumers. We the consumer have (not) spoken
& the big box stores have listened. If we the consumer
vote with our dollars - we'll get what we want - or
we will be assured that we do get what we pay for.We WILL go to HD and buy a $10 Gilmore hose
nozzle and get at best one season out of it before
it breaks or the seals crack & leak before
throwing it away. And like lemmings, we'll go back
to the same store, buy the same product again with
the same end results! That is how HD and Lowes
get us to keep giving them our money over and
over again for the same defective / low quality product.I don't believe they care about their customers. I do
believe that they look at us a "meat". I do believe that
they convincingly advertise "low costs" and have
convinced us over time that it is "OK" to to buy that
same hose nozzle 10 times in ten years for $100 -
because we are convinced that this is they way it is
supposed to be. The consumer has given up their
desire to THINK "Hmmm....if I buy one good quality
nozzle at $40 and have it last ten years, I'm $60
ahead in the end."That Steve is why I suggested we vote with our
dollars by spending them with the little guy that
does appreciate & respect their customers by
supplying quality goods and service. We are to
blame for blind acceptance of mediocrity that the big
box stores have cleverly convinced us to think.Whew - a long way to go to get that said. Thanks
for reading this little diatribe. Now I need to go
get an aspirin.Bill-http://www.franklinwoodwright.com
Edited 5/27/2008 1:12 pm ET by Woodrat1
I use HD and Lowes for what their worth. They do carry a lot of the supplies I need like glue, blue tape, wiping rags, 2" x 4"'s etc. I don't think they are catering to all folks for all things. So don't go their expecting to by cabinet hardware or cabinet quality plywood for that matter.
They're a supermarket and not a specialty store. If I'm building a run of the mill shed or kids play set in the backyard I most certainly will find what I need their.
Recently I went into Lowe's and asked where they had their MDF. The guy answered, "What's MDF?"
Hi Jimma ,
I like the one about the couple looking at digital VCR cameras at the big box store , they asked the clerk what can you tell us about this video camera ?
The clerk said well, it's Black , here is the handle and it comes with a nice case . Perhaps that is all that is expected of them.
dusty
Bottom line is that not matter how tempting this or that deal may be --- avoid the big box stores. In the long run you'll be happier and our society will be better off! I've even switched to buying T shirts made in the US of A. It increased my TV shirt budget by $25 dollars for the year.
Hey Joe ,
God's honest truth , I have never set foot into HD or Lowes, but even some of the legit material suppliers have China ply usually .
I feel the same as you , If I never used another product made in China I'll be fine with it .
dusty
Dave,Your story really erks me! Now I wish that I had taken the sheet back just so I could get into it with the lumber folks. That said, I've taken many things back to the Depot and Lowes in the past and they've always been very nice about it. In general, they have a much more liberal return policy than any other company. But I guess high quality lumber and sheet goods isn't necessarily the reason to go to these places.
Maybe Jeff Heath will pop in for some choice words about all this Chunk.
Seems ya can't get anything that doesn't say Made in China these days. The parts store told our mechanic that many replaceable parts are now made there. Guess that may have something to do with the wifes car being back in for a brake job after 3 months?
Cheer up man, maybe we can borrow some more money from them for another tax stimulus!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with products manufactured in China. Many items from there are actually fairly high in quality. What I have a problem with, is companies that specify items to be manufactured in China that don't take responsibility for the quality assurance of their manufactured goods. They believe that they can just pass on a product to consumers based on price and us consumers not noticing the quality.
Yeah, I was surprised too. I had rarely had problems returning stuff - other than the long wait in line. - lol
I was particularly pizzed because cutting a sheet of plywood made it "mine", even though on other occasions I had seen people returning pieces of trim and molding that were obviously cutoffs that were left over.
Jointerman:
A few years ago I noticed that in the Boston area HD plywood prices for un-exotic veneers like paint-grade birch/maple or red oak weren't any bargain (and were even often higher) than anyone else.
My feeling is that I'm perfectly capable of screwing up a woodworking project all by myself, and don't really need extra help from my supplier. The cost difference (usually something like five bucks a sheet) could be reversed, and it would still be a bad deal for me...
I'd rather pay a bit more for materials that I could turn my back on.
Had the same experience with another major chain.
I build solid wood and use little ply with the exception of dust shields.. chest backs.. etc. I ran into the problem several years ago and simply won't buy ply from the Box stores. My local hard-wood supplier carries many grades for the cabinet shops so...
I prefer the Columiba brand (not source of origin) as it is excellent grade and they guarantee no formaldehyde in the glues. A little more for the quality, but I expect to pay more for quality.
Sarge..
Jointerman & All ,
Just for kicks next time ask them if they guarantee the plywood before you buy it . To me it sounds like a defective product and they take back other defective items , so why not the plywood ?
There are what are called blows that blow in the press and sometimes uneven glue spreading that can cause the same in domestic plywood as well , China ply is not the only product this can happen with .
However :
I call it the moment of truth , when Joe consumer goes to the lumber dept there is domestic Maple or Birch plywood for , say $65.00 or China ply for $32..50 per sheet . We all want the good stuff but more times then not especially the DIYers can realize a huge pile of savings so they opt for the cheaper product , that's what Steve is referring to giving good prices to the customers .
The majority of the China ply I have seen is Poplar the skins look decent and there are like 13 or more plies also Poplar .Now if you had an application to cover the walls of train cars without needing to cut the sheets they may be the ticket .
We have learned from a few past threads that some import ply may contain up to 100 times the safe levels of formaldehyde ( Jeff Heath got sick ) the bottom line is every time a ship full of this junk comes to dock someone makes perhaps a million dollars , they don't want to stop buying and selling it , higher profit margins and lower cost to customers , but at what cost to our health ?
The USA has said it wants to give folks the ability to remain competitive so it has not forced China to change the contents , the government knows all about it , it's big business as usual .
The interesting thing to me is that China among many other countries will not allow it to be sold there because of the health risks , how bout that .
The EPA is the governing body I believe but have read that there are no indoor air standards to follow however take a look at the FEMA / Katrina trailers / homes that have been locked up because of too high of Formaldehyde levels , hmmm.
dusty, who will never use those products again and urges all to do the same
I'm as much of an HD basher as the next guy, and two of their stores next to me carry a long row of junk plywood. However, mixed among them at both stores is usually a small pile of Columbia Forest Products maple ply that's good stuff, and that I will buy when I need a sheet or two on a weekend and my hardwood supplier is closed. As Steve says, they know their customers, so they really market the cheap stuff and put it in prime spots at the end of the aisle in these stores. I don't know whether these stores are an anomaly, but my experience is that if you look hard, there's often a little bit of the good stuff back in there, too. Having said that, I bought a couple of sheets of Columbia FP maple ply at my hardwood dealer last week—one labeled made in the USA and other labeled made in Canada—and it was worth every penny of the $81/sheet I paid for it. I didn't see a single void while I was cutting it up.Norman
I have had a problem with HD plywood delaminating. I had a talk with the manager and told him that I am hoping that I just got into a bad run, but it was HD's loss not mine, and that I would rtturn just so much before going elsewhere.
I'm on the end of this thread. Don't bother to reply. I just want my $0.02 worth.
My 2 cents:I freely admit that both Home Depot and Lowes both have excellent, liberal return policies. My issue, little off topic, is with Home Depot's awful internet policy. When you shop their website and select the store you would like to peruse, the prices listed are flat false!! Let me expand on that, the prices are a LIE. At the local store they simply shrug and say " thats the price online". Well, why do you show the price at the store online AT ALL then? I simmered for a few days and called the 1-800 line for Home Depot and got no better. The attitude the "gentleman" on the line was quite literally "so what?". I of course told him they had lost a customer for life, and I would never set foot there again ( this is not the first time I have been massively disappointed there)I think its fair to say that this is a prevailing sentiment among consumers, and that Home Depot hasn't simply stopped caring, they actively seem to hate customers.DIsgusted in North CarolinaSpencer
Waldo,
My $00.02. The only reason for HD's existence is to drive Lowes out of business. The only reason Lowes exists is to drive HD out of business. Merchandise, customer service, etc. are secondary to their prime directive. It would be appropriate for them to post signs that read "Shop Here At Your Own Risk".
Just my pea-brain thoughts.
Best!
-Jerry (on the verge of being serious....)
Your killing me.... Prime Directives from the Plywood Borg. I think I really understand the situation now, Enter and You will Assimilated!
I am glad we have great local yards here for material. Wood Workers Supply is very nice to work with and stands behind the material they sell. I found some nice HD ply from Pebble Creek, rock solid material.
AZMO <!----><!----><!---->
-----------_o
---------_'-,>
-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Morgan,
I am weary and battle-scarred from negotiating the vending of home improvement comestibles. The local HD is a customer service nightmare. The Lowes is in a iffy neighborhood so you have to remember to pack a gun when you shop there.
For the most part, I stick to "real" hardware stores and lumber yards where I actually like to shop. But even the best places can stick you with Chinese junk plywood: the only time I ever purchased any was from my favorite supplier! At least I got my money back.
Stay cool!
-Jerry
Recently bought 3/4 inch red oak ply from depot and had them cut it up for me. Although it sounded like their saw blades were dull, the tear-out on the back side of the board was horrible, up to 1/2 inch in some places. Not sure if this is along the same lines but I've never had this problem with their cut-shop before.......haven't experienced your situation though.......I'd definately return it ......
I never buy plywood from HD for one thing ( I use a local supplier). Having said that I have seen plywood purchased from wholesalers and dealers delaminate. In the end the product is returned and replaced. Bad batches occur everywhere and especially dragon ply (imports from Asia). I find HD caters to more construction type work and very little in the way of cabinetery.
Regards
Carpenetr5
Carpenter,I also prefer a local supplier. I had 4 sheets of paint-grade maple ply delivered with a couple hundred board-feet of hardwood (free delivery!!!!) a few months back. The lumberyard plywood was great, but I needed one more sheet, and at HD, I could have it cut down to two pieces of a manageable size since I don't have a truck. I guess next time I can just bring my saw to the lumberyard and cut it down there.
That's why I call it HOME DUMPO.
My local hard-wood supplier has the Asian version also as some insist on the better price? But... all stacks of ply are clearly marked domestic (U.S. or Canada) and all others are clearly marked Import. These guys and gals go the extra mile to make certain you are aware before the fact and I appreciate that.
Sarge..
With the way the dollar has been devalued, the sheet of HD birch plywood that I got was more expensive than the Maple plywood that I got from my lumber supplier several months back. Now here's another question, why don't American manufacturers make Baltic or Finnish type plywood (in American sizes of course)? With the way the dollar is going, it'd be cheaper than € based european or Ruble based Russian import stuff. I guess we wouldn't pay for that kind of quality either?
"...why don't American manufacturers make Baltic or Finnish type plywood..."
Columbia Forest Products does: http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodeuro.aspx
-Steve
Unbelievable! My lumber store (Aura Hardwoods) claims to carry the Europly! I guess I'll have to browse around more the next time I'm there. Unfortunately, since I'm a hobbyist, I don't get there that often, Aura is mainly a cabinet shop supplier... which I guess is why they carry the Europly.Thanks!
Jointerman ,
They do and have been making a domestic product like you speak of , it's called Apple Ply , it comes in a 9 ply 1/2" and 13 ply 3/4" and a 5 ply 1/4" . It's been around for many years you just have to ask for it by name .
With that many plies there is little room for voids . Very fine product .
dusty
And one just never stops learning on this forum!
Steve took the words right out of my mouth JM. Columbia ply is the main source of domestic my HW supplier uses for domestic. My source has been doing it since the mid 60's I believe and appear not to leave a stone un-turned.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 5/30/2008 12:43 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
It is like I would always explain to potential clients when I was a contractor. You can get a good price, good quality or a good schedule. Sometimes you can have two, often you can have a compromise between them, but you can not get all three. HD and Lowes give you a good price and good convenience, so don't expect quality. Go to your local lumberyard and the price may not be as good, their store hours are not as convenient, but almost everytime, their quality will blow the big-boxes away.
You just need to decide what your priorities are and go with it.
Sorry to jump in, your post reminded me of a sign a friend had in his shop. It said "Price", "Quality" "Speed" Pick two. I think your post hit it on the head.Troy
Price, quality, schedule was a great way to explain to potential clients why they couldn't have it all. We were capable of all three, just not at the same time. That usually stopped to questions and the pressure about why the price goes up when the schedule is compressed or expectations of quality rise.As a society (not necessarily as individuals), we have definitely given up on quality in favor of price, sometimes in a huge way. I have very low expectations of Lowe's products, but I was blown away by the low quality of a B&D Workmate I just bought. I knew to expect plastic parts, but the quality of the plastic is way below even the toys I buy for my one-year-old (today) daughter). Every single piece (even the clamping mechanism) is cheap cheap plastic. It barely held up to assembly process without stripping and the handle didn't even survive shipping. It came to me with the plastic tab broken. It doesn't have a chance even in the mildest of shop settings. I knew to expect cheap, but this is a new low for me. I guess I have to keep looking at yard sales for an old one. They just don't seem to turn up there like I had hoped.
Kids expect something to be more durable than we do:) I know what you mean about the workmate.Troy
The triangle in building a bicycle has always been
Light Cheap Strong pick the two you want!
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
-----------_o
---------_'-,>
-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Knowledgeable help is "delaminating" as well.
Paul
....................But..........their associates are friendly and helpfull
Wicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled