I’m currently interested in purchasing a benchtop hollow chisel mortisel…but I’ve heard many pros and cons to these machines. I personally don’t know anyone who owns one and would like some honest feedback from someone who does. Based upon my readings, my first choice would be the Delta 14-651…but would be willing to look at other models or better/faster methods of making mortises. Thanks for any help!
Replies
I haven't checked out the newest generation from Delta, but about a year ago I opted for the Shop Fox mortiser. You'd have to compare to current #'s, but was a heavier, double post construction machine. The HP was rated higher,(but it runs at higher rpm's, so that kinda cancels out)and it came in at about $40-$50 cheaper, it has treated me very well all the way up 3/4" mortises, and I've had no issue with burning ( if I'm not mistaken, that conversation will come up in this thread once it gets rolling). All other methods considered,(I've got a Wood Rat, Drill press and Forstner Bits, and a nice set of very sharp chisels that see alot of use) if you've got the $ and a need, then a dedicated machine can make life alot easier. Good luck-js
I also have a Shop Fox and am very happy with it. Before I got it, I mostly did loose tenon joints because if you set things up right, the fence on the router table can be used for the reference surface for both pieces that get mortised and joined with the loose tenon. I was concerned how time consuming it would be to adjust a hollow chisle mortise fence to get the outside surfaces to match for the joint. The Shop Fox has a screw that serves as a micro adjustment, and it really makes the set up pretty fast. What ever you get, I would highly recommend that. As a second priority, how well the hold down works that keeps the piece in place when you extract the chisle is also a factor. After looking at other models before I bought the Shop Fox, I have to believe that the spindle, motor, and depth stop of all the reputable brands are about the same. By the way, the guy who sold me mine recommended to spray teflon spray on the outside of the chisle as well as inside on the bit to reduce friction during the cut, and it does work better with it.
Bruce
I chose the Fox for the extremely sturdy twin columns. Mounted on a base it is comaparable to a floor model without sliding tables and proper clamping. You can bolster the clamp capacity as you have to do on all BT morticers. That seems to be the real weakness of all the brands.
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Bruce,
OMHO, you will be very happy with the Delta. The only thing you probably have to do make a wooden fence to make sure it will be square. The one that comes with the machine will probably not be square. I simply attached mine to the one supplied by Delta. I do not recall what I did to make sure it was perfectly square, but I do not remember having much difficulty.
You should enjoy using the machine. One word of caution- make sure you allow for the proper spacing for the bit to clear the cutter. Using it with improper spacing on hard wood like oak will cost you money.
Have you looked at the British-made Multico line? This was the original bench-top machine from which the others knocked off theirs and none of the copycats quite match them in quality. I bought the small model several years ago from Garrett Wade and have been quite satisfied. They are a bit pricey, but good, especially if you buy the English chisels. The only complaints I have are the front-to-back depth and the size of the table (both limit the capacity of the work piece without either recessing the unit or raising the work surface -- same as with other bench-top models). Otherwise, the Multico is a good choice and received the best rating of all machines in this category in an issue, I believe, of FWW a few years ago.
[I just checked and found the review in Issue #118. Also, there are many references to the Multico in the archives -- do a search for "Multico" and you'll find it compared with several other choices for mortisers.]
Edited 2/16/2004 9:39:47 AM ET by JIMMACMAHON
Bruce
I mentioned Fox because I bought a demo model for $185 and I liked the sturdiness of the twin columns, has three depth positions for the hydraulic shock that allows tall stock underneath. The features and the price dictated it was the machine for me at that moment.
However, with the exception of the older Delta model I would be happy with any of the BT's as I can tweak all of them to make them give decent results. Some have too short of pull levers (add a longer pipe over the existing handle), none have perfect clamps ( you engineer some), the tables and fence could use a phenolic faces to square and eliminate warp (add them). None are perfect in every respect. None have sliding tables and proper clamping as a floor model. None cost as much as a floor model!
Bottom line: They all will give good results after some tweaking. If you don't want to tweak or run hundreds of M&T's a week, get the PM (or brand X) floor model. Otherwise any of them will get it done if the operator has an IQ and is willing to strengthen it's weak points.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I looked at the Delta and the Jet, got the Jet but there was very little difference between them. Now I wish I'd gotten the ShopFox, a friend has one and loves it! But the little Jet does a good job for me, especially considering price and size of machine.
Both the Delta and Jet will accept up to 1/2" chisels. The ShopFox will take up to 3/4", which might be a big advantage. OTOH realize that pushing a 3/4" chisel through hardwood takes a LOT of power, and a BT machine is unlikely to be stable enough to reef on it that hard... those of you with the ShopFox, has that been a problem?
I do 3/4" mortises as two passes with a 3/8" chisel. Actually I do most of my work now with a 1/4" chisel, because it is so much easier and faster to push through oak - it's faster for me to do 2 or 3 passes than to try to hog it all out with a bigger chisel. Much less burning with the smaller chisel as well - the chips clear easier.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
A W
The Fox has a lot of downward thrust sitting on those twin columns. It is equipped with the long handle to increase the leverage, so 3/4" is no real problem unless you get into some really dense stock as lignum vitae, etc..
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hey Sarge,
What's that sticking out in front of your mortiser - looks like some sort of clamping system? Did that come with the Fox or is that an aftermarket deal?"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
A W
I saw the front face clamp that comes with the General morticer and am familar with the PM 719 "big boy". Thought I would just add one to the Fox. It's a simple veneer press clamp available through Highland Hardware for about $8. Just built a support on the front of the morticer base for it to attach to and added a cushion to the clamp face to resist marring the stock.
My Fox table and fence has been replaced with phenolic as I wanted a stable no-warp material. I cut some slots in the table to allow a Quick=Clamp to secure it down with quick release. Just a few extra home-spun touches to bring up the efficeincy. Cheap (my favorite word.. ha.. ha...) and effective!
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Sarge,
Pretty clever. So I guess the hold-down that comes with it doesn't work any better than the one on my Jet? :-( That stupid little set-screw just ain't enough to hold-down when I'm trying to yank a 1/2" chisel out of some oak that has a little too much moisture, especially if I got impatient and rammed the chisel in too fast...
Maybe I'll just raise my prices enough to cover the cost of the big PM. :-D"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
T & K
The stock hold-down is basic as all the BT's. It is a feeble attempt at being serious. It will help to put a piece of styro-foam under it to prevent marring and help slide the stock to and fro. But more down-clamp has to be improvised and you become the "improvisor" when you walk out the door with the morticer.
I did a lot of research on morticers before I purchased (as I do with most tools) and all of them have short-comings. Your Jet needs a longer handle for leverage as the General and Shop-Fox has. A pipe slipped over the existing one will get you there.
The General has a nice front clamp, but they didn't bother with the more important down-clamp. The Shop-Fox has some heavy duty columns, but it's draw-back is the 3450 rpm as opposed to others 1725 rpm. I find it no problem though as the bit is turning 3450 rpm and not the chisel. If I get any burn it is in the area that is being removed anyway.
The chisels on all BT's are not high grade steel. The whole process works much better with a razor sharp chisel. You can get a sharp edge with the stock chisels by honing, but the lower grade steel will curl the edge in harder stock and dull much quicker. If you do production on a small scale as you do, an up-grade in chisels wouldn't hurt. Spraying Pam on those chisels helps lubricate as on a Band-Saw blade.
Just a few little tricks you employ to make it more efficient. I cut a lot of M&T's by hand, but if you do a lot of them the machine will definitely benefit you to save some time and effort. With a fast paced production situation, the floor model would be very beneficial. Hope all this gives you some ideas.
BTW, nice web-site and some interesting work. I do listen to local Public Radio locally and get a Celtic and Galic (sp) music on Sunday morning. Are you a musician or just host a show featuring it at the local public station?
Regards to Tim and Katherine from the "deep south"...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Just out of curiosity, what did your research show on the Multico and their chisels?
Jim
I am guessing you are referring to the smaller 3/4 HP morticer by Multico. I did no reasearch on it as I do not have a dealer locally as I do with Jet, Delta, Shop-Fox, General and have access to someone with a Grizzly. I wanted to physically examine and see them in action. This left the Multico out of the picture in that category.
Garrett Wade has it for $699 without a base. This also left it out of what I am willing to give for a morticer without a base, proper clamping and a sliding table. I was shopping in the under $300 range (po boy). If I needed an industrial style I would probably go PM at $719 with everything included as I have personally used one and it is good.
What I can tell you about Multico is that it does have a steel single column as opposed to cast iron of some others. That is plus, but a plus you are going to pay for. I do think the handle does need to be longer for better leverage. Other than that, I cannot give any details as I have not used it or the chisels.
Regards...
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for the reply. I bought mine before there were other small shop alternatives. Also, at one time you could get the Multico for a lot less than the price you mentioned. The British chisels are first-rate, but way expensive, and I've had poor results with the Taiwanese chisels. Maybe the Empire can work its way back!
Jim
I can remeber when they were cheaper too. Not sure who makes their chisels, but I can tell you Ashley Ilse's has excellent steel in their bench chisels. The Austrian mortice chisels are a bit pricey also.
I suppose inflation has hit the continent also. Always happens just before I decide to take a vacation. :>)
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Well, as to the cost of a European vacation, I can tell you that the Euro has really popped the exchange in their favor. At an all time high today ($1.28+). Also, the Italian economy has "rounded up" so that even the locals are paying more. Big surprize last for us last fall compared with earlier trips. I bet the cost of chisels and everything else these days is 20 to 25 percent higher for us. Good for those who buy American with Euros; not so good the other way around. Nasdarovia!
Metod
It can and it will! It doesn't make it a PM 719 but it will work on small jobs...
A machinist sliding vise works even better, but they aren't cheap by any means.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
At the suggestion of someone either on this forum or somewhere else, I put a grizzly sliding cross vise on my Jet mortiser. What a difference! Now I have a very firm stock clamp and exquisite fine adjustment. One of these low end mortiser folks will have to figure this out someday and add such a vise with t heir product.
Mike
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