Replies

1. 
   Lataxe | Feb 13, 2009 09:43pm | #1

   Tom,

   Only you can decide whether the economics of your situation are acceptable.  Perhaps you might consider, though, that not everything can be reduced to a monetary value.  The pleasure got from woodworking, for instance......

   On a more practical note: I wonder if salvaging timber locally is an option for you?  I hardly ever buy timber these days as I discovered endless sources of free stuff - from large WW firms whose offcuts are enormous planks (often burnt in their heating system) to demolition sites of old buildings (which often contain large quantities of well-dried exotics, as well as more run-of-the-mill timber, all sent to a landfill or bonfire out the back if I don't grab it).  There is also: old furniture being thrown out; refurbishment of schools and other buildings containing large timber structures; stuff found in skips when folk remodel their houses.

   I have hundreds of cubic feet of free timber in my store.  95% of it is hardwood (I ignore the softwood) and includes maple, oak, sycamore, teak, iroko, ash, cherry, walnut, pitchpine, sapele and one or two others I haven't even identified yet.  In the past I've got (and used up, sadly) Brazilian rosewood, afromosia, sweetgum, ekki, elm......  I have so much wood at the moment that I have to refuse or redirect offers of it these days (one gets known as a free-wood collector) as I lack storage room. 

   You do have to adopt the attitude, "I will make something out of this wood here" rather than "I want this kind of wood to make something". If you can do that and cultivate freewood sources (you have to scout around a bit and chat-up blokes in factories and building sites) you may well find yourself awash with wood; and richer, since the voracious timber merchant will not have been free with your wallet.

   Lataxe

2. 
   Samson | Feb 13, 2009 09:58pm | #2

   Hobbiest's don't work wood because it means they get cheaper furniture - even if they don't count their time!  We work wood because we enjoy the process and the product.  

   Also, we can build for ourselves unique things that cannot be had anywhere else.  If you're just going to try to build an Ikea bookcase, you may as well go to Ikea and buy it, as you will spend far more on materials than the $150 Ikea asks.

    

3. 
   Eef | Feb 14, 2009 01:37am | #3

   tom,

   not long ago i and my fellow knotters briefly discussed the pitfalls and joys of working less expensive lumber.  i chimed in about home depot pine.  this stuff is cheap and comes s-4-s to boot.  in my humble book collection are several vintage books about early american country furniture. pine was often the wood of choice, or necessity.  it has, on many occasions, been sheer joy working with this stuff. they also sell "clear pine".  this too is lovely material although more expensive. 

   what lataxe told you is true.  the abundance of recylced wood is a wide open field awaiting your curiosity and tenacity.

   you just gotta want it dude.

   by the by, i live 3 hours south of you in the bedeviled city of angels and i do most of my wood shopping at bohnhoff lumber, when i'm not at home depot, that is.

   best wishes

   eef

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Feb 14, 2009 02:25am | #5

   If you live near LA and area, look at the marine supply places. They may have a better selection and better prices.
   As the others have said there is a lot of free or low cost lumber out there you just have to pound the pavement.
   What about you local tree service business, they might give to wood instead of hauling it, and landfill charge.
   I was talking last couple days with some tree service brothers and suggested we go in on a wood mill, and see what we can get. I am in a slightly better position than you but with the millions of people out in your area it opens up a lot of choices. Old movie sets?I love to work with solid wood hand picked for each job, but that is few and far between, to make a living I am fighting with crap melmine particle board kitchen cabinets (land fill in the holding pattern). When I get a chance to make something for myself or family and do give pieces to charity for fund raising. I gather my wood, hole up in the shop and start working. Better that the Blood Pressure medication they shove down your throat.
   One of a kind, made to last beyond my years. signed with pride and endorphine high.

4. 
   brad805 | Feb 14, 2009 02:23am | #4

   I think Lataxe said it best.  I have never been able to select my own material due to my location (500mi from wholesaler).  I only purchase FAS stock now, and sure you do have to pick and choose from the stock you get, but I think its worth it when you consider a well crafted A&C book rack will become a family heirloom and not simply thrown away when it gets in the way.  There are very reputable woodworkers (or artisans) that will create such a piece and sell it for $1,000 or more.  If you like beautifully crafted wood furniture, but dont always want to simply cut a cheque, I think this is a great hobby.  Sometimes I wonder, but usually in the end I am ok with the time I put into things. 

   Just my view. 

   Brad

5. 
   bruce22 | Feb 14, 2009 02:32am | #6

   If you get any pleasure out of woodworking why would you want to quit. If it's a hobby you don't have to worry about the bottom line and making a profit.

   We all want to upgrade the tools we have, but you can really get by with very little. Don't pay too much attention to all the tools Norm has, he has sponsors.

   Dig a little deeper for material sources and maybe look at more western woods.

   Don't give up.

6. 
   migraine | Feb 14, 2009 03:10am | #7

   I have dealt with Reel Lumber for many, many years.  Even though I have not dealt with in the last three years, many of my friends still do..  I have a hard time imagining that there is a supplier problem.  The only thing I can think is that your order is too small.    Their retail prices are not too far off of wholesale/shop pricing

   One thing I found is that you need to communicate with them to get what you need.  I will assume that the orders are coming out of Anaheim, or their wholesale yard in Santa Ana.  Try the sales guys in Anaheim.  Many times they will pull the order for you.  If you are talking the riverside branch, prices do vary more.

   There are other outfits, but I don't know who delivers to Bakersfield.

   Try Higgins, Sorroyan, and others.   I know retail does suck but if you are up front with a sales agent and try to make larger orders, they might accommodate you, specially now a days.

7. 
   mvflaim | Feb 14, 2009 03:21am | #8

   Have you considered turning and using free wood from recently cut down trees?

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/13/2009 7:22 pm ET by mvflaim

8. 
   TonyCz | Feb 14, 2009 03:23am | #9

   I have a line on a full shop of tools a power-matic tablesaw 10" biesemeyer fence @ 2 years old, delta DJ 20 jointer 2 years old, a delta floor mounted drill press 4 plus years old, a delta 14" band saw,  a delta 15" planer 6 years old and a few other items I know the price is good and its all here in So Cal south bay area. All of the tools are like new.  

   Is any of this of interest to you if so I can get the details and price. I know he wants to sell the lot as one.

   by the way Bohnhoff lumber is a great resource for hardwood material.

   323-263-9361 they are in Vernon.

    

   Tony Czuleger

   ---

   Edited 2/13/2009 7:29 pm ET by TonyCz

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/15/2009 11:26 am ET by TonyCz

9. 
   TonyCz | Feb 14, 2009 03:31am | #10

   Tom have you looked into using a lower grade of lumber like select, instead of fas?

   ---

   Edited 2/13/2009 7:31 pm ET by TonyCz

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/13/2009 7:32 pm ET by TonyCz

10. 
    Thorvald | Feb 14, 2009 05:49am | #11

    Tom,

    Don't give up, just keep looking for opportunities.  I understand your concern about the price of material.  Here in Alaska, you take the best deal you can find and then add shipping -- you end up with premium prices on everything.  However, if you're determined you find ways to get where you're going.  Try throwing in with some other folks on buying bigger quantities; take a road trip with a truck and collect all the good deals you can find; if you do any turning, take a road trip through fruit and nut country (that wasn't meant as a cheap shot at California) during pruning season and collect all that stuff that's going in the burn pile; etc., etc., etc.

    Ultimately, I'd say the answer to your philosophical question is don't build cheap!  Cheap is what you find in cut-rate department stores regardless of the material used.  The goal for you ought to be to build the best, highest quality piece you can with the material you can lay your hands on -- that's not cheap, that's craftsmanship.  If it was all, and only, about the material, only rich men would be craftsman.  Van Gogh did wonderful things with a piece of charcoal; I couldn't paint a decent picture of a cow with the spendiest oils and brushes known to man.

     

    Verne

    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!

11. 
    ThreePuttJoe | Feb 14, 2009 06:30am | #12

    I agree with what Lataxe et al have already said. I also need to get a little more creative in my wood aquisition methods as well. As evidence, look at the the "DC Woodworkers" thread in the next tab down. It sounds like these guys are going to get a truckload of cherry for nothing but a little effort.

    This might be a good thread to start...get people on this site together by area, and pitch in for "wood-getting" efforts. I certainly would be game for spending some weekend days busting my hump for some cheap to free wood. I'm in Grayslake (North of Chicago) Illinois and have a good strong back to offer...anybody?

1. 
   tom93311 | Feb 14, 2009 08:25am | #13

   Thanks to all who have responded. You all have demonstrated thinking outside the box I placed myself in and that is why I love these forums. It has given me a lot to think about and a new found determination to make this happen. Just no dumpster diving for me. Thanks again - Tom.

1. 
   Biscardi | Feb 14, 2009 04:03pm | #14

   Tom,

   If you buy the wood a project at a time you will always pay too much because you will feel pressure to buy anything to get the project done. I routinley scan the local papers and those Trading Post type papers in the conveinience stores. If you keep your eyes open you can find good buys and stockpile wood. I recently bought 100 bf of pretty good walnut that someone had to sell because he was moving for $3/bf.

   If money is tight find a cabinet shop that will mill stuff for you. I did this before I bought my jointer and planer. They charge 1$/minute which is a good stop gap and I am sure these days they would be happy for the money. The rest of the work can ( and I would argue probably  should)  be done with hand tools.

   If you like woodworking, you can get around the money issues.

    

   Frank

2. 
   dkellernc | Feb 14, 2009 06:48pm | #15

   Tom - Your first post alluded to, but did not explicitly mention, why you're doing woodworking.  You say you're making furniture, and are questioning the $225 you'll have in materials in an Arts & Crafts bookcase and whether it's "justified".

   So my question is - justified compared to what?  If the answer is that you need to justify the cost of materials so that you'll have a piece of furniture that will hold books (regardless of the style or quality of construction of said bookcase), you will never be able to justify woodworking, even if you get your material for free.  To come out ahead in monetary terms, you're competing against Ikea and other large factory outfits that make their stuff in Asia with very inexpensive labor, taxes, etc...

   If the question is more nuanced - I want an Arts & Crafts bookcase, so I need to be able to produce it more cheaply than I can buy such a bookcase of equivalent style and quality of construction, then you're in just a little better situation.  Here, you're still competing against a factory, but it's the Stickley factory that uses solid wood and makes a lot of furniture in Western countries where the wages are higher.  My guess is that you still can't justify it (no way you're going to be anywhere near as efficient for a one-off piece), but it'll be a lot closer than comparing it to "curb" furniture.

   If you're comparing your products to a custom furniture maker, you're in much better stead.  It's likely that you have lower overhead, would value your time at a lower rate, and will have less investment in tools, shop, and employees than a custom maker, though they will still be more efficient by virture of greater practice.

   Finally, if the answer is "I want something that I've made to pass down to children or family members", then naturally you've nothing to justify - doing it yourself is the only way.

   My 0.02

12. 
    MikeHennessy | Feb 16, 2009 03:37pm | #16

    I gave up buying wood for each project long ago. It's just too expensive. Like you, the supplier I use for hardwoods is a bit of a trip, at almost 2 hrs away. So I go a couple of times a year and fill up my lumber rack. Then, the "lumber yard" is only two steps away. ;-)

    I look at it as inventory "overhead".  If I buy $1,000 of wood at 1/2 the cost, I save $1,000 over time. For me, the savings is worth the initial investment. YMMV.

    Mike Hennessy
    Pittsburgh, PA

13. 
    WillGeorge | Feb 16, 2009 07:43pm | #17

    I hear many words (your thoughts I would assume) in you post.

    1) I am struggling with whether I should continue woodworking.

    I would say THAT is the real question you need to answer.

    I can still get wonderful wood locally but the prices keep going up and up and up.......

    I am making two canopy beds.. Long drawn out process in my little garage shop. No, or very little, woodworking time in the winter. As in to cold!

    These beds have cost me a fortune and no where near finished. Will I continue or burn it all to keep warm? I will finish them somehow, some way....

    I for one think a project for family or a friend have no real price that you can put a finger on. Especially when they smile and actually tell their friends.. My dad made this.. You have to see it...

    Maybe you should look at alternatives as in making little boxes or turning? Both need little 'wood' but great skills.

    OK, so you still need expensive tools!

    Or maybe carving if you can afford good tools and have the 'artist' touch. I do not...

    "not seeing the justification of spending up to $8 board foot in lumber or is this just an expensive hobby that is really not justified in my situation?"

    I would say it all depends if you really love woodworking. Then again you could take up flying model airplanes. You talk about expensive!

    Just my thinking and no hate here...

     

     

14. 
    user-189774 | Feb 20, 2009 07:40am | #18

    Try giving the folks at Woodmizer (800-553-0182) or Timberking (800-942-4406) a call. Both company's are more than happy to give a list of thier customers that purchased sawmills that would be in your area. Rough cut lumber from the mill is usually pretty reasonable.

                                           Jay

15. 
    BruceS | Feb 20, 2009 05:09pm | #19

    Vices are vices !   I would much rather spend my money on lumber.   Spending money at a Pro Sporting event,  chasing a little white ball on the links,  getting hammered at the local "Gin mill"  are far more expensive in the long run.  And you are only left with memories or a headache.  

    Wood working is productive ;-)

    Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

    Bruce S. 

     

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Feb 20, 2009 05:45pm | #20

   "And you are only left with memories or a headache."

   Just to clarify, I have been left with some pretty nice memories of woodworking.

   And a few headaches, now that I think on it. ;-)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA