I am starting to set up my woodworking shop. It will be for personal use only. I also want the finest quality products I can get. My wife just got me an 895PK Porter Cable router. What is the best router table I can get? I also want to know if I should return it and get the 7518 router instead. Has anyone purchased the 10″ Sawstop table saw?
Thanks.
Replies
Wow....... One Thing at a time :-)
I have two PC 690 routers and they do the duty from freehand to table with no complaint. I even force them into service to make jig-induced dovetails once in a while. Ho Ho. Your router is an updated-made-better-due-to-competition version of my routers. Enjoy them.
As far as router tables go, you will get a whole hunk of advice. But one thing you can do "on the cheap" so you can learn about all that advice is to go to http://www.apachetrail.com/ww/pix/tools-jigs/rt/make-a-router-table.pdf right away. l
As far as a table saw goes (if i read your pleas correctly I sincerely feel that you might short-change yourself qiute severely if you do not consider the Sears #22124 Craftssman Professional Table Saw. (Oh, I am thrilled with mine after the first couple of months~!~)
-- Steve
Enjoy life & do well by it;
http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
Edited 1/16/2005 2:17 am ET by Putzger
Gilbert, build your own router table. There are many plans available. Some are nothing more than a box with the router set in the top.Not familiar with the saw you describe. The 7518 is perfect for a router table. If the other router is your only one, keep it, you probably will find more uses for a hand held router than using the table.
mike
I agree- build your own router table and make it a little bigger than any others on the market - it sure makes handling longer stock nice. Also, without any intended advice to Sears Craftsman lovers, I would give serious thought to never purchasing any Craftsman tools, ever. I own several and they all seem to lack the necessary detail to do a good job as well as being way overpriced for what you get. Sears makes good quality automotive tools but that does not transfer over to their woodworking department.
Doug
Good luck setting up your shop. It's a never-ending process. I have one of the SawStop Cabinet Saws, and just posted a few comments about it in another thread. Well designed and solidly built. I would consider buying it for the price even without the blade brake. The SawStop is even heavier than the PM66 but has control action that is fairly light and backlash-free. So far I've been enjoying using it. Let me know if you have questions about the saw.
Thaks for oyur feedback. I will be ordering the table very soon. I've never owned a table saw in my life so this should be an interesting place to start.
Gilbert,
If you haven't owned a table saw before, are you sure you want one of the SawStop's style? It's essentially a North American style saw with the most comprehensive set of safety features currently available. If cost isn't a factor there are some people who prefer European style saws that are designed from scratch with riving knives and high quality sliding tables that ride right next to the blade.
People compare the SawStop with the Unisaw and PM66, but there are many more options. The Laguna TS, for example, is a good North American style saw that has a riving knife, can take 12" blades, and is designed specifically to receive an accessory European style sliding table and/or scoring blade if the mode strikes later.
Don't forget to invite strong friends over, or someone handy with rigging, if you get any of these saws. They are extremely heavy. The SawStop main crate (not including fence or extension table) alone grosses at 657 pounds. A lot of the European saws are heavier yet.
Dave
So kind of you to take the time to send me so much info. Thanks for that.The reason I am leaning torwards the Sawstop is because of it's safety. I am new to woodworking and didn't even knoiw there were European/North american styles. I have heard a little about sliding tables and from what little I know, they seem to make sense. I admit I do have a fear of losing a finger or two, plus I have a young son and another on the way. My two fears are kick-back and finger loss. Another fear is that being married with two kids I will never again get to sleep with a stranger. (Kidding)I have the financial luxury of being able to buy whatever saw I decide on. I know that the Sawstop has a 10" blade. What are thne advantages of a 12"? Also, is it worth sacrificing safety?i am spoiling myself with the equiptment I am going to buy. I just got the twin laser Porter Cable miter saw. I also got a great drill press by general. I also got the Porter Cable 895 router and am looking into the Bench Dog table.It appears I need a jointer, (possibly the 8" General) and of course a table saw. I am verfy excited about learning this craft.Am I heading in the right direction?Is this your profession or hobby?thanks again,
gil
Gil,
I can relate to your situation. I have a 9 year old son who likes to use my tools and will eventually graduate to the table saw. I work with scouts as a Den Leader and on special projects that could easily include power tools. We typically limit the boys to cordless drills, but guidelines allow older scouts to use a wider range of power tools. Sometimes we build wood models at work, and sometimes that includes a coworker with shop experience using my saw. These situations started me looking at SawStop. I was lucky to come across the nonbinding preorder page on their site shortly after it was put up. That locked my place in line, but I didn't decide to go through with the deal until I visited the saw in person @ IWF 2004 in Atlanta. By then I had asked enough questions about the technology of Steve Gass that I had become convinced of the technology's practicality.
A 12" blade can make deeper cuts, but that advantage is not IMO worth sacrificing safety. You can always work around the difference with other tools or a different design approach.
You seem to be putting together a capable set of tools. I never set out to build a shop. I just had projects in my head and wanted to get them out. I started with some ridiculous ideas of what tools it would take to put those projects together. Eventually real life project situations taught me that the tools that you find in well equipped shops are there for good reason. You don't have to collect tools like Norm, but a good basic set of power tools is required. It sounds like you're getting up on that curve more quickly than I did. I'm sure you have plenty of projects in line. Enjoy!
You only mentioned power tools. I'm sure you've heard other people beat this drum, but don't forget to pick up hand tool skills too. They make the difference between good projects and great projects. In some situations they do a better, faster, and more pleasant job than power tools.
I'm a home hobbyist. I worked wood when and where I could for the first 30 years of my life. 15 years ago I started collecting my own tools and building my projects. It's hard to find the time between work and family. I often have more time thinking about project details while driving for work than it takes to complete the projects themselves.
Best of luck with the shop!
Dave
Again, thanks for your help and insight. I am going to order the Sawstop, (not avaiable till April, but that's OK.)
I will also look into some hand tools as you suggested.I have one last question if you don't mind. Sliding tables. How important are they and is there one for the saw stop?Thanks so much,Gil
Gil,
North American style saws do a good job ripping plywood to width but aren't as good at crosscutting sheet goods squarely and safely. The typical solution to this is to start with sheet stock that has four square corners and four straight edges, and plan your cuts to register off those four reliable edges and arrive at your final desired pieces by way of cuts that are all "rips" (longer than they are wide). There are times when this can't be done, but those are rare and they can be handled acceptably with a circular saw and straightedge. A good shopmade crosscut box can accurately handle some sheet goods situations too.
A good quality and accurately set up sliding table does a great job crosscutting sheet goods. You can buy them as aftermarket accessories for some North American style saws, but I have heard that the results don't match what you get with a Felder or other European machine designed from scratch to have a sliding table. I also am not aware of any accessory sliding tables that fit the SawStop - at least not at this point. SawStop will probably have to survive a number of years before the aftermarket starts to design for their saws.
Your best choice will probably be to go with the SawStop and learn to use it "North American style" without a sliding table. I have a friend who runs an Altendorf table saw. $30,000 but he owns a high volume professional cabinet shop that works almost exclusively in sheet good. Very little solid stock except as trim. They need the Altendorf's sliding table accuracy, and the saw's scoring blade that eliminates tearout on the exotic veneered sheets they use. To rich and complicated for me. I'll stick with a regular style saw since I'm not a pro.
Regards,
Dave
$30,000 for a saw. Wow. Should I get two?
Thanks agin for the insight. I'll let you know how things progress.
Personally I consider that to be somewhat of a gimmick. Learn to use the tool, don’t count on some high tech new gizmo to keep all ten attached, and if you fear it, you’ll never get good at it. Going on a tool buying binge before learning to work with the material is like doing surgery before med school. Start with hand tools and READ, READ, READ. I recommend anything by Tage Frid, Krenov, Maloof. Even though there is a 18” Powermatic planer and a Unisaw in my shop, the two years I spent surfacing stock and cutting joints by hand taught me more about wood and how it behaves than the past eighteen with all the power tools ever has. Believe me, this will make the whole experience far better.
Also, since cash flow is not an issue, get the Lie-Nielsen Toolworks catalog and buy it all. Best planes and other hand tools ever, period.
Thanks for your direct and intelligent advice. I will look into the Lie Nielson products. i have heard only great things about their tools.
Thanks.
Gilbert...
best advise I can think of re the router table would be to buy the plans for Norm's deluxe router table, and adapt it to suit Pat Warner's fence. You might wanna check Pats site for info on your routers too; there's lots of priceless router related stuff there.
http://www.patwarner.com
As for the rest of your shop, I've a question for you to think about. Have you thought about the projects you want to build, materials you want to build with and how you want to build them?? I ask, because there's a gulf of difference in the tooling required and space needed to get the job done with minimal frustration.
Case in point..
While it's technically possible to buy every whizz bang wood-muncher on the market, you'd need a hanger sized shop to find space for it all, not to mention a shop wired for 3 phase, 220V and 110V. Then there's the dust control that having so many machines would involve... for so many tools, you'd need a pro to install the system.
Then there's aspects like, do you want to work mainly with sheet goods or with solid stock. Do you want to focus on case work or fine cabinetmaking. Can you tolerate a ton of machine noise in your working environment, or do you prefer a little more peace and quiet.
Each answer to the above can make drastic changes to the size of shop you need and the tooling required. Aspects like the size, type, height and quantity of bench for example, the type of sharpening gear you'll need.
What I'd advise is that you have a good think about what you want to do; a desire to do something of everything is perfectly acceptable btw. You say all this is new to you. That being the case, I suggest you resist the urge to shop for toys..I mean tools until you get hold of, and thoroughly ingest some damn good books on the subject; some of the books on the market are worth their weight in gold.
Last point; don't be afraid to ask... I guarantee you'll never make an original mistake so there's bound to be plenty experience here and elsewhere re how to correct it... Personally, I'd rather you asked twice before you messed up once...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Your advice is spot on. I sometimes get so excited about starting or learning something new that I get all the cool stuff and then learn about what i need. i will in fact slow down.
I imagine I will make a few chairs for outside. A low table to go on the back of our couch. A small "end table" to go next to my favorite reading chair. i don't see myself ever cutting large sheets of plywoond. I think I will use pre-cut stock. Probably exotics. (I see myself as rather exotic.)
So in essence I want to make furniture for our home. I am in a fortunate position that I am not limited financially so I can in fact treat myself to high quality equiptment.I'm pretty sure I need a jointer, so I think I am going to get the General 8"
I just got a General drill press.
I am considering the Sawstop saw.
I also got the Porter Cable 890 router and am seriously considering the Bench Dog table to go with it.Have you ever purchased exotic wood on-line? It seems risky. I live in Beverly Hills but the closest "wood store" that I know of is in Pasadena. 35 mninutes away.Anyway, I look forward to any thoughts you may have.Thank You,Gil
Have you ever purchased exotic wood on-line?
I gotta admit... I have.... once... 2 years ago I bought 3 small pieces of Indian rosewood; beautiful stuff... grain was marbled like coffee and cream that'd just started to combine. It's beautiful to work too; being such an oily wood, each stroke of the plane felt like it was caressing silk... just a faint whisper as the shaving curled out from the mouth... magical stuff to work. I kept it in the shop almost 20 months before finally getting around to working some of it; shortly after I bought it, I learned that it's now considered an endangered species as stocks have been plundered wholesale with no thought to future supply... something that's all too common with the exotics thesedays. So I made myself a promise; (I'm kinda weird that way) I'm lucky enough to live in an area that's rich in mature hardwoods, all of them properly managed. I buy from a mill that specializes in select timber extraction; taking an individual tree without causing damage to the others around it. So I've resolved that from now on, any hardwood I use in a project will come from locally grown stocks in order to ensure that the generations that come after me will benefit in the way my forebears have let me benefit from their forward planning.One other lesson I learned was that the wood munchers are a double edged sword.. sure, they make light work of the timber prep, but they make light work of screwing up your stock when they run out of "true" too... in addition, the finish they leave is pretty close to corrugated iron... nothin but minute ripples. Granted, they can be sanded out... but that turns the surface into shredded wheat; all the fibres ripped n crushed. Far better all round to put some elbow grease into the board; work with hand planes. That way I can deal with changes in grain direction, sever the fibres cleanly rather than rip em to shreds... the finished product is like chalk and cheese compared to anything the wood munchers produce... but that's another lesson ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Ok Mike I am going to order some hand planes tonight. Some are shallow, some steep. I have no idea yet what that means but I will get a few and take your advice. You would be a very effective salesman. I just got on-line and learned there are smoothing, jack and block planes. i also read about each of their applications. I'm in the buying mode so I need to go and order.Do I sound like a drug addict?
Gil...
I'm like Peter.. been doing this for a few years now although I still class myself as a rookie; seldom a day goes by when I don't learn something. When I started out, my tool buying spree was mostly shooting from the hip with next to zero clue or guidance, fast running into the limitations of budget and shop space. I've benefited from a ton of education since then, and wherever I can, I try to steer people away from making the same mistakes I made.
There's a few good books on the subject that go into hand planes in a lot more detail than I can here; they come in all shapes and sizes to suit dozens if not hundreds of purposes, and at times you can feel like their attraction is sucking you farther and farther down the "slippery slope". That said, there's a lot you can do with a few carefully chosen planes. I'll try to shed some light on a few here..
Wood prep
Now I know you've outlined a desire to use machinery for this, but hear me out. The one advantage that preparing raw stock with hand tools have over machines is capacity; with machines, the max width of board you can work with is restricted by the width of the cutter head. With hand planes, that width is limited by the length of your reach. As for length, jointing long boards needs a tool with very long in/out feed beds and additional support stands etc. Any error in setting these up can adversely affect the finished quality of your board. With hand planes, you and the tool move over the board, as opposed to the board moving over the tool; a good sized bench is all the support you'll need. The penalty for this is time; stock prep with hand tools can take way longer than by machine. There is no one single "better way" to do it as that depends entirely on whether you value quality of finish over speed. Where hand planes excel is their ability to cope with particularly difficult grain, and changes in grain direction; both can be troublesome for machines.
Tools required are pretty basic. A scrub plane should be the first tool to see the board; this little tool is highly deceptive as it can remove stock with surprising speed, rapidly cutting some shape into a board, leaving a surface that's ideally suited to the next plane in the process, the Jack (of all trades). Jacks tend to be multi purpose planes; set course, they can start the flattening process after a board's been scrubbed, starting to refine the shape of the board. Set fine, they can be used as a large smoother. Both the scrub and course jack tend to be used across the grain; at this stage, tear out doesn't matter so much as it does later. BTW the course / fine jack are both bought as the same tool, the difference between them is how you set them up and sharpen them. Following the course jack, you start to flatten the board along its length with a jointing plane. These long planes work by skimming over any hollows in the board, cutting down the high spots either side of the hollow. Their weight makes them particularly effective at working difficult grain with comparative ease, although don't get me wrong, they'll give you a work out. Jointers also make short work of edge jointing long boards.Final smoothing is done either with a fine jack or a finish smoother.
Blade angles
Your post mentions you've heard of low and high angled planes but you're unsure as to their uses. Actually, there's a standard angle too somewhere in between them. The angles mentioned relate to the angle of incidence between the board and the blade; low angle tends to be between 37 & 42 degrees, best suited to working end grain. Standard angle is 45 degrees, best suited to long grain and boards that are fairly easy to work. High angle is between 47.5 degrees and greater, best suited to difficult grain. Basically, the steeper the angle, the less likely the blade is to cause tear out, the downside being greater effort required to make the blade cut.
Examples of low angle tools would be low angle block planes and shoulder planes. Bench, rebate and standard block planes are the more common examples of standard angle. High angle tends to be the domain of infill planes, although some bench planes can be fitted with a higher pitched frog (blade support) that convert the plane to York pitch (50 degrees).
I reckon by now I've said more than enough to have caused some confusion so I'll stop there. One word of caution though. Like machines, not all hand planes are created equal; there's a bunch of lemons on the market waiting to catch the unsuspecting; like machines, the watch-word with hand tools is quality. There's no substitute for it. Now while it's technically possible to hunt through old tool dealers and find good examples of old planes, these tend to be few and far between. It's been my experience that buying from either Clifton, Lee Valley (Veritas) or Lie Nielsen avoids any potential for disappointment; their tools being exceptionally well made, very high quality and extremely thick blades that take and hold an edge well, and exemplary customer service.
For more information, a good place to start would be The Handplane Book by Garrett Hack; for a good grounding in more general information, The Woodworkers Visual Handbook by Jon Arno is priceless.
Ohh... nearly forgot....
Do I sound like a drug addict?Not yet my friend, not yet.... ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Hi Gilbert. I have been woodworking for about 5 years now and I find myself using the tablesaw less and less. This is happening because of the way that I work and the type of work that I do. I started off thinking that I needed a saw, and as I got into it I realize that I don't need one all that much. I make furniture, not much sheet good cutting, and I like to use hand tools. My main tool is the bandsaw. I do most of my ripping on it, and rough shaping of most parts. I like to finish everything posible with a hand plane, using the jointer to keep straightening edges to a minimum. The tool collection that I had in the early stages is still in my shop, but the tools that I added later[bandsaw handplanes,chisels etc] are the tools that I reach for now. If you have a clear idea of what you want to build and how you want to build it you may save yourself some expense [although that dosen't sound like you need too] but you will also save some space.
Peter, Thanks so much for your input. I actually thought in theory that I would also not use a table saw all that much. I figured I have a very good 12" miter saw, twhich could be used to cut boards the short way . I then thought if I wanted to cut boards the long way I could use a band saw. I don't plan on buying sheets of plywood. I probably will buy pre cut boards. 10' by 5' or so. I want to make small things like end tables and chairs. I am going to hold off on the table saw for a while and see how it goes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do need a band saw and a jointer correct?I also thought that for cross cutting I could use a high quality circular saw with some type of guide system.I look forward to any and all of your thoughts.Thanks,
Gil
Hi again Gilbert. A tablesaw is a lot of money and a lot of floor space. Don't get me wrong I have one myself and would not do without one. I have the space and I do occasionally cut sheet stock. With shorter pieces of wood you can definately rip on a bandsaw, it is a lot safer and if you are getting into furniture with thick stock you will almost need to rip on the bs anyway. So if I where starting over and was interested in making furniture, not so much cabinets, I would buy in order.....handplanes [scrub, #8, #4 1/2, block, shoulder, and spokeshave] bandsaw, jointer, router, drill press, thickness planer, tablesaw. This is obviously a very rough categorizing, and many factors would dictate otherwise. So yes I would recommend a bandsaw and a jointer, and as with anything, buy the best you can afford if you plan on staying at this hobby. I bought a Delta DJ20 jointer, and I am planning on getting a Laguna 16HD. I live in Canada so Grizzly and Minimax are not options but I wish they where. So lastly, Mike Wallace gives some very good advice and hand tools are an excellent way to get into true woodworking.
Thanks again. I just purchased an 8" jointer made by General. I also got a great router table with lift by Bench Dog. I am now seriously considering getting the 18" Agazzani bandsaw. I have passed altogether , at least for now on a table saw. I feel the band saw with jointer with drill press and router table will meet most of my needs.I will be the only guy that bought $6,000 worth of stuff to build an Adirondac chair. It better be comfortable. I'm real excited to get started. I will receive the equipment by the end of next week!!
Well I am envious of you Gilbert. Some last advice is to by some quality set up equiptment, engineers squares, feeler gauges, straight edges etc. Machines only work as well as they are allowed to, due to there set-ups. I would advise on reading, and more reading. I like the books by David Charlesworth, and Peter Korn. You can also get some great videos at the Lie-Nielsen web site if you decide to get into hand work. Aim to learn from the best and you will be well on your way. You are going to have a lot of fun. Peter
Thank you for your kind words. I am excited. I will look at the books you recommended. I can't wait to get started.
Here's another Mike tuning in. I have run a cabinet shop and am currently retired and building my own shop. I build cabinets; and furniture, chests and boxes. Not much into curvy stuff. I do some chip carving. I have been wood working for about 25 years. This is a forum for tools and so all the emphasis on tools makes sense, but...I think buying all the tools you think you might need before you get into the "making stuff" phase is confusing, and it takes some of the fun out of the learning. I would suggest that you pick a project, try to make it with the basic tools and add tools to solve your problems. That way you appreciate what you buy for the convenience and accuracy it offers. Without a trial and error phase you might take all those great tools for granted and that would be a shame.
Your advice makes perfect sense. You are right. I've goptten all caught up in reading about the equipment. I love reading about new technology and then buying it. I need to learn about wood.thanks,
Gil
My big three in order of importance
1- Bandsaw, one can do wonderful things with a well tuned 14" inch but I want the added resaw capacity and HP of an 18". I will be purchasing an bandsaw soon. My short list is the Bridgewood PSB-440 http://www.wilkemach.com) and the Agazzani B-18 (http://www.eagle-tools.com). As reviewed in the 2005 Tool Guide the Bridgewood was a no brainier for me, however the $1800 price has listed in the tool guide is now $2295 (on sale for 2095). Exactly the same price as the Agazzani which appears to be a better detailed tool and has name recognition (for resale) hat the bridgewood lacks. Leaning toward the Agazzani.
2- Joiner, buy the best you can. Minimums for me would be 8" of cut with 72" long tables. One could argue that everything we do depends on the jointer getting it right and this is on area I don't have the patience to put up with almost correct. I've just purchased but not received this http://olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4240 jointer with a spiral head. The spiral head is quieter gives a better finish and imo safer. Oliver has a sterling reputation for fine tools stretching back to 1890. We'll see.
3- Planer, something in the 12 is 15" range. The little benchtop units like DeWalt do a nice finish. My biggest problem with them is they are much noisier then planers with 3450 RPM motors. I have not decided what planer yet.
You got some good advice in this thread. I understand your anxious to get going but perhaps the best thing you could do at this point is read, it's interesting and educational to see what people build and what tools they use. Taunton Press has a lovely book called shops that gives some insight into how the work and tools are related.
So this is my free advice and worth every penny! FWIW I've been involved in wood from the one man designer/craftsman to co-owner of a fully equipt 22,000 sq foot shop manufacturing high end office furniture. I got out of the biz about 10 years ago and am setting up a "hobby shop" now.
Regards
Hi. Thanks for all the input. I honestly can't remember if I replied yet to your email. If I did then chalk it up to lack of sleep. I have a sick two year old.Re: equipment, I just purchased the 18" Agazzani band saw and the 8" General jointer. I can't wait to get started with them. Re: planers, my friend told me that I almost don't need one with such a good band saw and my jointer. He also said that if in fact I do get one the DeWalt that you mentioned has been very favorably reviewed.I'll let you know how the new toys work out. I figure I should learn how to use them first.
Gilbert, you've got good tools so the pressure is on, no excuses not to great work, hehe. I doubt you'll want to be without a thickness planer. The jointer and planer work together to create straight flat stock with parallel sides and edges reasonable quickly and easily. This is the starting point we seek.Good luck, hope you like woodworking!
Hi Gilbert.
I'm in the process of setting up my 3rd shop and I've accumulated a few routers (okay, maybe more than a few) along the way. I've also given a few away because like you, I want the best my modest pocket book will allow.
Regarding the PC routers, I think you'll be happy with 895 - great tool. However, I want to mention an old model by Hitachi (new for me). I just used this new (M12v) plunge router (15 Amp, going from memory here) to run a 3/4" straight bit through 2 1/2" hard maple and I was very impressed by two things: 1) For being a heavyweight in the handheld router world, it is VERY quiet. Almost unbelievably quiet for what I'm used to. 2) It is a workhorse! It didn't slow down at all, which is something to say considering the job I gave it.
My good friend who paid a lot more for a PC Speedmatic was giving me a hand and was very disappointed that he already bought and used his router after using the Hitachi. I think Amazon has it for about $160, which as you can probably tell I think is a steal for this baby.
I'm also happy w/ my Bosch 1617 variable speed router (quiet, light, good for hand work) and my smaller Dewal (DW621, I think) plunge for lighter jobs. The Dewalt has really good dust collection built-in, which is a nice feature when creating chips.
Hope this helps.
Tony
Wow, Thank you for all the good advice. I am going to get The Porter Cable 7518 to be mounted underside my Benchj Dog table. It will stay there.
I am also going to get an additional router for smaller jobs and to be able to plunge.Probably one of the ones you mentioned.thanks again,
Gil
Hi Gilbert,
You've gotten some great advice on this thread, and I agree with the vast majority of it. I especially agree that gaining familiarity and dexterity with hand tools is as important as and sometimes more rewarding than working with the power tools.
Speaking of power tools, few folks would argue that there are four essentials - Table Saw, Band Saw, Jointer and Planer. Given your lack of financial constraints, I can't imagine not purchasing a planer. The DeWalt 13" seems to be the tool of choice in that width range.
I also couldn't imagine getting by without at least one router (two bases) and a router table; probably 80% of my routing is done on the table. Other power tools to consider would be a spindle sander, belt/disc sander, drill press, mortiser and, last but not least, a very comprehensive dust collection system.
No matter how accurate your tools or proficient your use of them, if building fine furniture, even as a hobby, is your goal, you simply can't get by without a good set of chisels, as well as a few key planes: smoothing (no. 4 or 4 1/2), jack (no. 5), jointer (no. 7) and a low-angle block plane for end grain work. I'd also consider a shoulder plane and a rabbeting plane if money weren't an issue. One or three scrapers and some quality rasps would also be good. And of course, read thoroughly about or take lessons on sharpening. Tools dull, so too will be the output.
Finally, given the magnitutde of your investment, consider doing yourself a big favor: take some lessons on general woodworking from one of the acknowledged pros. Lonnie Bird's basic courses are booked through '05, but there are a bunch of other experts out there, as well as a number of WW schools that offer short (1-2 week) courses designed to help you get the most out of that fancy collection you're acquiring - and keep your digits! The table saw isn't the only tool capable of doing some serious damage.
I hope this helps, and wish you the best of luck. Btw, make sure your wife is plenty occupied - a "woodworking widow" with lots of time or pressure (like kids) on her hands can be a thorny problem.
Best regards,
Mitch
Gil,
My pleasure. Since we're both setting up our dream shops, I may be sending a question or two your way soon. I honestly don't know which is more fun, setting up the shop or using it... I guess it's all woodworking in the end.
I drew up the plans for mine about 2 years ago, built it (with a house next to it - need somewhere to sleep, too), and have spent the last few months actually putting it together. I'm like a kid in a candy store right now, so I know how excited you must be putting your shop together.
Good luck.
Tony Z
Thanks. I do have to admit I love researching and finding the latest greatest tools, even though I have never used them. I met with an electrician today to put 220 volt lines in specific places in the garage. Fun, exciting stuff. I even went out today a bought a few pieces of beautiful wood for when I do actually get this stuff.Gil
With all due deference to those who like Lie-Neilson, If I were you, I would look at the Veritas line of planes, if new is the way you are going. As far as I am concerned, half the cost of the Neilson planes is their awesome looks. However, the Veritas planes are more innovative, work at least as well (they are always getting top tool awards in magazines, even against more expensive planes) and I absolutely love Lee Valley. I wish all mail-order companies were like them. I'm setting up my shop, albeit not in one fell swoop like you. As a nineteen year old on a limited budget, It's taking a while. I just bought a unisaw two days ago, and I now consider myself to have all the equipment. Bandsaw, Air compressor, Jointer, Planer, Table saw, Scroll saw, Hollow chisel mortiser (<I love that tool!). If there is one thing I have to say, it is that if you can't afford what you want, wait. don't by a cheaper product, because you will be dissapointed. Building a shop is a never ending process...
Thanks. I will look into Veritas planes. I appreciate the info. Also, my wife is cool with what I am doing. So far at least. We just had our second son last night. She has other things on her mind. My timing was perfect!Gil
Congratulations on the birth of your new son. A suggested project would be a cradle with hand made dovetails.
I am actually getting some of my equipment tomorrow morning. I am so excited. Electric is in. Safety kill switch installed for all outlets. Hand made dove tails. Hmmm. Ok. Ok. I won't be so lazy.
If you are interested in hand cut dovetails do yourself a huge favour and buy Rob Cosmans videos. They are available at Lie-Nielsen.
If I had the finances and the time I would take as many 1:1 classes from some of the woodworking greats out there. I would see if I could 'rent' David Marks for a week.
Where does David Marks live? When I git into 4x5 photography I took numerous workshops and really responded to one of the teachers and did hire him once a week to print with me. It was so very helpful.let me know about David.Thanks,
Gil
Santa Rosa, CA. You can find out more at http://www.djmarks.com. He is also the host of Woodworks on DIY and was featured as one of HGTVs Modern masters. I took a class about a month ago and was awed by his expertise. That would be my idea of 'living it up'.
My idea of living it up is slightly different, but...I will absolutely track him down and see if I can learn from him. Unfortunately, or fortunately we just had a baby last Friday. I will not be able to go anywhere for a little while, but maybe I can lure him here or at least find out when I can study with and learn from him.Thanks for the info.
While the Veritas planes are OK, the L-N's are just so much better. No, it is not looks that the extra cash goes for. It is for a plane I do not have to spend the better part of a day fetteling to get it to work.
If you can find an old Stanley Bedrock, that wouold be a great find, but prices on those are close to a new L-N, and they are not quite as good.
The Veritas are just as tight, no backlash, and they have improved the plane. Lie Neilson are mostly copies of the old stanleys. Great planes, but the Veritas are WAY better value, if not superior planes.
The Lee Valley 4 1/2 smoother is ground flat to 0.003". It would be very difficult to make a 0.001" shaving with it. The Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 is ground flat to better than 0.001". These are very realistic measurements when face planing a finish and not sanding.
I agree!! The L-V is not a bad tool, just not in the same league as the L-N. As to the value of one over the other, well, I just finished a crotch cherry topped table and it never had sandpaper touch it. Finished straight from the 4 ½ pitch smoother, that’s value.
Oh, another thing. Is your wife happy that you are getting a hobby, or is she sort of mad that you are spending all this money when you could've bought her a new car?
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