Replies

1. 
   sawdustmaker | Oct 24, 2004 03:12pm | #1

   I operate out of a small shop, and have considered the same setup. The obvious down side is if you have your router set up for a certain operation, and you need to rip a board or otherwise utilize your table saw, you may have to change your router settings.

   Right or wrong, this was my solution. I purchased a full size router table top and fabricated my own "benchtop" legs. I can move it where I like, even hang it on a wall (after removing the router and insert plate), and not "tie up" my table saw.

2. 
   forestgirl | Oct 24, 2004 06:45pm | #2

   I solved the problem mentioned by Sawdustmaker by mounting the tabletop on hinges.  It can be lowered, with the router and fence staying in position, when I need to.  It happens to be on the left side, rather than the right.  One of the advantages to this set-up is that since the table top is level with the surface of the saw table, it provides extra support for large/long stock (when I'm not needing the bit above the table).

   [edit:  Found my web page with shop pictures, click here]

   The type of router tabletop I have lends itself to this design.  It's the Veritas steel top, seen here.  A simple wood frame underneath it is attached to a 2x2 which is fastened to the edge of the saw wing and supported by removable legs.  Not sure this tabletop could be mounted on the left, due to the way the fence (home-made or purchased) works off the edge of the steel.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   
   

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   Edited 10/24/2004 11:46 am ET by forestgirl

   
   

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   Edited 10/26/2004 12:04 pm ET by forestgirl

1. 
   sawdustmaker | Oct 25, 2004 02:41pm | #4

   forestgirl

   That's a great idea! Does the router "stay put" when in the down position for a long period of time? Thanks for sharing.

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 26, 2004 06:48pm | #12

   Hi, sorry I'm late getting back to the boards.  The router is quite stable in any position, and helps keep the table in place on the frame.  Ideally, I would make some kind of catch to totally insure the table doesn't tilt out.

   Here, I found my web page that shows the Veritas set-up in my shop.  Toward the bottom of page 1 is a picture of the frame.  The very last picture on page 3 shows the table dropped down out of the way.

   Keep in mind (mini-gloat) my saw now has cast-iron wings.  Yipeeeeee!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   twintime | Oct 25, 2004 08:29pm | #5

   Thanks for everyone's responses. 

   Forestgirl -- the Veritas design seems to "mount" the router in a unique fashion (compared to benchdog, etc.).  Do you like it?   

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 26, 2004 06:52pm | #13

   Hi Twintime, yes, I love the mounting system.  I own 3 different routers, the PC690, the plunge PC (whatever the model#), and a big Freud 3+HP plunge router.  I didn't not want to hassle with different plates and all that stuff.  The Veritas clamping system is solid as a rock and very easy to use.  They include a centering pin and insert with the plate so you can get the router set just perfectly. 

   If you'd like to see it up close, here's the web page I made after I got everything put together awhile back:forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   twintime | Oct 26, 2004 09:27pm | #18

   Wow, I'm very impressed with the color step-by-step pictures.  Thanks!

   I was orignially looking at the Veritas top, but had second thoughts due to the missing miter track.  Can you expand on your suggestion that it is not necessary?  (Since I don't have a router table, I don't know what I am missing i.e., "... dont know what I've got till its gone...".

   Also, did you buy or build a router fence for it?

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 27, 2004 12:18am | #19

   Hi TT, thanks for the compliments! 

   I'm far from a routering expert, but here's my take on the miter track thing.  The main use of a miter gauge on a router table is to mill end-grain, usually at a 90* angle.  I have talked to a handful of very experienced WWers who agree that it's not necessary, one of whom was actually a rep for Bench Dog, which was pretty funny -- he sees them as dust-catchers primarily.

   So, whadya do to keep that piece of stock firmly at 90*s??  Use a fence sled (see the picture of the Veritas fence outfit).  Or a coping sled, which is much more reliable than a miter gauge anyway.  I have one I can take a picture of if you'd like.  With that steel top, you could even use the front edge of the table to index off of with a jig.

   To me, the miter gauge track is just one more weakness in the structure of the table.  What little inconvenience might be presented by not having one is more than made up for by the absolute stability of the steel table top and my ability to use magnetic fixtures with it.

   If I were determined to have a miter track, I'd probably get the new steel insert mentioned above, since it appears to have the universal mounting system.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   roblee | Oct 25, 2004 10:25pm | #8

   Hi -

   Just thought I'd toss in a newer option to what forestgirl did... we've introduced a 12" diameter steel insert this year... with magnetic levellers... works great, and lets you use T-Track as well....

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=50264&category=1%2C43053&SID=&ccurrency=2

   Cheers -

   Rob Lee

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 26, 2004 06:57pm | #14

   Hey, Rob, Thanks!  I saw the insert in your new catalog and immediately showed it to a friend of mine who's currently deciding what to do for a router table.  Great item!

   I'm a walking ad for the Veritas steel table top.  It makes so much sense to me.  Was offered one second-hand and snapped it up, just have to get the fence now.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   forestgirl | Oct 26, 2004 07:07pm | #16

   For those of you who are intrigued with the Veritas steel top, I want to make a point here.  Obviously the top does not have a miter gauge track in it.  A miter gauge is not necessary to work with a router table, despite it's inclusion in virtually all commercial tables.  For end routing, a sled is used with the fence. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   sailalex | Oct 27, 2004 02:32pm | #22

   Thanks for the info on your setup. One question, you obviously don't have a lift arrangement (easy access by propping up the table) but do you find that it would be more effecient(convenient?) or accurate to have a lift so you don't have to raise the top?

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 27, 2004 07:18pm | #23

   A router lift's purpose is to enable you to make macro- and micro-adjustments of the bit from above the table.  The "propping up" of the table top here is for bit changes, and obviously pretty primitive, LOL.  I've since taken to just dropping the motor out of the base for bit changes.  The other option might be to put one of those "extender" collets in the router so the bit could be changed from above the table.

   If my router had a spindle lock for bit changes (one wrench needed instead of two), bit changes would be alot easier to manage in the table.  With a traditional router table, you take the plate, with the router attached, out and change the bit. 

   Veritas makes a lift, but I don't like the design, and I never could justify the cost of the fancy-schmantzy ones I see in various catalogs (would get a shaper with that kind of money).  Note, though, the new PC890 and the Milwaukee router, have above-the-table capability built in.  Using one of them would involve drilling a small hole in the table top, which I wouldn't hesitate to do. 

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 10/27/2004 12:21 pm ET by forestgirl

1. 
   sailalex | Oct 28, 2004 02:23pm | #24

   Thanks, your posts on this subject has been very helpful as I am contemplating a router table arrangement but find the expense to be considerable when you add up all the items, including a lift arrangement.

2. 
   forestgirl | Oct 28, 2004 08:10pm | #25

   You're welcome!  The overall cost is yet another I selected the Veritas, albeit 3rd in line to stability and ease of use.  If you look at the various accessories for it, I think you'll find them to be priced much more reasonably than accessories for most other commercial outfits.  Take a look at the hold-downs too -- it's a great design based on the hold-downs used on shapers.

   Can't remember if I mentioned it above, but I'm still using my home-made fence on this table (budget got pretty tight the last couple of years) and it works just fine!  If you're thinking about making your own, there's a very good plan in the current Wood Magazine.

   Once you get a table set up, you'll love it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   twintime | Oct 29, 2004 10:42pm | #27

   I was looking at this same Wood mag when I first began this post!!!  How did you attach your fence ? 

4. 
   forestgirl | Oct 30, 2004 06:23am | #29

   I hold my fence to the table with small Bessey bar clamps.  You can see them in the last picture in page 3 of my web pics.  The Veritas fence comes with two edge clamps, more sophisticated than mine, of course.

   I like this design better than having the fence ride in 2 parallel T-slots, because to make fine adjustments you only need to move one end of the fence (the distance from the bit to the corresponding spot on the fence is the only thing that matters).  So, the other end stays clamped and just pivots as the adjustment is made.

   It wouldn't be too hard to buy and mount some kind of quick-clamp to accomplish the same thing, I just haven't gotten around to it because I keep thinking I'm going to buy that Veritas fence!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   KesslerCraftsman | Oct 24, 2004 06:58pm | #3

   I have the same setup now..but with a Jet contractor saw.  One of the 'cons" is that the weight of my PC 3.5 hp router causes the whole thing to tip if I stack too much stuff on that end.

   In the next year I'll build Norm's router table and have a permanent setup.

   lp

4. 
   notrix | Oct 25, 2004 08:39pm | #6

   Wow!

   I just had to read who wrote this as I just did the same thing. I didn't remember posting it<G>

   Anyway...I bought the aluminum plate from Rockler and put it on the right side extention with a Bosch base. Besides the mentioned problem of having to move set ups it seems to work fine till I build and have room for a nice router table.

   I don't trust the particle board extention table and will put in full length supports underneath. Also for the set up problem I'm thinking I could put another scale on that end of the Biesmeyer and at least have a zero starting point for cuts. Of course this will change with each bit but...

   I also plan on routing a groove for a miter insert. I'm thinking there must be some metal inserts but can't think off hand where I've seen them. Anyone have a clue?

   Good luck with yours!

   W

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 27, 2004 12:21am | #20

   Virtually any of the general catalogs will have miter tracks.  Rocker, Woodcraft, Lee Valley, etc., etc.  If you don't have a stack of these to look through, LMK, I'll post a couple links.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   Crunk | Oct 25, 2004 08:42pm | #7

   Unless your shop space is EXTREMELY tight, I would advise against it.

6. 
   oak | Oct 25, 2004 11:00pm | #9

   there is a thread on breaktime of one persons solution to a router table within his bosch 4000 table saw

   it may (or may not) be of help to you... there are several pictures of the router table, fence, an how it is built.   look for the posts by Dan019  

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=44579.1

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 26, 2004 07:00pm | #15

   Obviously Dan019 has a broadband connection.  Oh well......  Thanks for the heads-up anyway.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   oak | Oct 26, 2004 09:25pm | #17

   hi forestgirl..

   i believe it is the last message in the thread, i resized some of the pics for dan.

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=44579.26

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 27, 2004 12:22am | #21

   Thanks, oak, I'll take a look.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

7. 
   poorsh | Oct 26, 2004 12:34am | #10

   Hi

   I was looking for the same thing myself at recent woodworking show here in Vancouver, B.C. There was a booth set up but didn't have a lot of time to explore the quality of the product. They have a website http://www.thesawshop.com

   Have a look at the Accusquare router table and fences. Prices in Cdn dollars so about 20% less for you. Saw the post re Lee Valley and have always found their products and service top notch.

   Cheers

   Mac

1. 
   twintime | Oct 26, 2004 02:42pm | #11

   Thanks very much!! That's exactly what I had in mind. 

8. 
   Jeffnv | Oct 29, 2004 03:07pm | #26

   I have the Jet contractor with built in router lift on the right side of the saw.  I think it is incredibly usefull and a great use of space in a small shop.  Good Luck

9. 
   Pondfish | Oct 29, 2004 10:47pm | #28

   I made my router table to fit between the extension rails of my Grizzly 3HP saw over ten years ago, and while I have wanted to do it all over again, so far I haven't.  This is not because of inertia, it's because the simple one I made works pretty well.

   A photo of it with the fence system is on my web site.  The table is a torsion box made from 3/8" thick strips of poplar ripped to about 5/4" wide, and sandwiched with two sheets of 1/8" plywood. There is an additional layer of melamine on the top. 

   The router is attached to a 1/4" thick piece of plexiglass cut to fit exactly in the hole left in the torsion box top.  All height adjustments are made by reaching under the table.

   The fence relies on an incra jig for fine adjustment, and clamps to the saw rails for stability.  It doesn't budge.

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 30, 2004 06:32am | #30

   Cool web site, Paul.  I like the mouseover effect, though it took me by surprise a bit.  Hey, excellent lumber storage rack.  Looks remarkably like the one in my shop, LOL. 

   I really like your router bit storage also, being able to see the profiles better than when they're simply vertical.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 10/29/2004 11:33 pm ET by forestgirl

1. 
   Pondfish | Oct 30, 2004 03:11pm | #31

   Thanks!  I am thinking of changing the onMouseOver effect to onMouseClick.  I put the web site together on a big screen (1280x1024).  Now that I'm on a smaller screen, I have lots of problems with the site.  So besides an update, I'm thinking of changing a lot on it.

   The router bit storage is some obeche that I drilled holes and then ripped at a 45° angle.  Ileft plenty of empty holes, as you can never have too many bits (I think I have 3-4 more since the photo was taken).

   Feel free to use any of the javascript on the site.  The MouseOver effect was fun to figure out, since it has to update a picture and some text. 

   Paul

   ps I'm ex-Seattle, and I'm jealous that you live in the NW!  First weekend of November would be the SYC grand prix, one I've sailed in even during 40 knot gales.  Fun!

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 31, 2004 07:05am | #32

   Oooooh, you're one of those brave water-persons.  I love being near the water, and used to love swimming in it when I lived in Florida, LOL, but when it comes to boats I get a little nervous.  Like to fish, as long as the boat's big enough to feel secure!

   I think what surprised me on that first visit to your site was that it was mouse-over and not mouse-click.  Took me a few seconds to realize what was going on.  Also, since I'm on dial-up, it took several seconds for the new image to download, adding to my confusion (a little sleepy at the time too, didn't help).

   I tried to design a web site for my retail business last year, using Front Page.  Just couldn't stay focused on it long enough to overcome the difficulties I was having.  Will probably pay someone to do it!  I'm impressed with your's.

   I'm just finishing putting up new storage in the shop and getting stuff that was tossed outside for the re-organization project back under the roof.  Next is making Christmas presents.  After the holidays, plan to build a real stand for my router-table-top, with storage for bits and wrenches and stuff.  Will keep your approach in mind.

   Hope you like New Jersey!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)