My family has some land full of trees from which I can harvest anything I’d like. There’s a guy just a mile or two down the road with one of those mobile sawmills that would be willing to mill the timber for me for a fee. So far so good…
How much trouble is it to store and dry hardwoods on your own? I’ve never tried it. I’ve got a basement with tons of space for storage in which I could regulate the humidity, or I could store it in a barn on the farm without the capacity to control factors like humidity, temperature (we live in AL), etc. Would it be worth all of the trouble? How long does it normally take to dry lumber?
Curt
Replies
Go for it!
But don't store it where the wind can't get to it if you are air drying it. Also, it takes about 1 year per 1" of thickness but this is not cast in stone. You can/will learn a great deal about wood in the process.
Do some heavy duty research first.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Too many factors enter into the equation to say simply "yes or no". What kind of tree? How big are they? How much is the sawyers fee? Are you going to use the lumber for WW'ing? Would you go out and buy the same type of lumber for your projects? How much would it cost you? Are you able to do the "grunt" work of stacking, moving, restacking, etc. by yourself?
All those questions and more should be asked before you fall a tree. On the plus side, you will have lumber at a fraction of the cost of comparable stuff purchased elsewhere. Air dried lumber is, in many circles, considered "better" as to color and workability.
Make sure you have your ducks in a row before you have any wood cut. It needs to be stored, stacked, stickered and cared for immediately after being milled. Have a plan and have every thing ready. To be ill-prepared may cost you more than to just go buy the wood.
It sounds to me like you have a situation that many would lust after!! Access to timber and a sawyer, storage space both indoors and under cover. I would definately pursue it as a very viable option if the trees are decent.
Best of luck!! BE PREPARED!! (the boy scouts moto LOL)
Mack
"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Much depends on the timber itself. What will you be harvesting? Can that timber be converted for less than what you might expect to pay for similar stock from a yard? Will that timber yield stock that cannot be purchased from a yard?
I have a Poplar stand on my property that has mature, straight, wide trees - some with 20" diameters. But, two minutes with a calculator reveals that it's cheaper to purchase the Poplar (secondary wood) from a yard.
On the other hand, I have dropped a number of:
• Cherry. New England Cherry has an amazing color.
• Birch. Large crotches are prime for beautifully figured veneers.
• Apple. Yields quality turning stock.
• Maple. All manner of figure from our New England varieties.
Walk the property and flag the trees suitable for conversion. Do they offer something special or are they run-of-the-mill Oak/Pine/Etc? Converting a tree to a [table] is satisfying in ways that cannot be spoken, but it can also be a serious waste of time and money...
beachfarm
Excellent advice!!
Inexpensive, readily available hardwoods like red oak and poplar are hardly worth the trouble for a hobbyist.
I would take that stand of poplars off your hands if you were close, though. I mill those into 16' length boards for mouldings, and sell to the builders around here. Not a hobbyist tree, though.
Milling a tree like a honey or black locust, apple (not easy to dry), pear, or the obvious choices of maple, cherry, and walnut are definately worth it. Especially if you can produce some lumber that you can't get at the local hardwood store.
Jeff
You can have the Poplars, but you'll need an amphibious portable mill to harvest them... or a K-Max helicopter. :)
Even if the trees are readily available at lumber yards it has still got to be cheaper to cut and dry your own. Also having the wood custom cut gives you access to lumber to fit your needs not what is comonly available down the street. For instance depending on what you build you might not always need 3/4" thick lumber, you might want to have some 2" or 1 1/2" stock custom cut for future projects. I had some white oak trees 1/4 sawn and now have plenty of that wood to build all kinds of craftsman style stuff.
Be ready for a couple of hours of hard work when it comes to stacking the lumber and have plenty of stickers on hand ahead of time. I would not put the lumber inside for about a year. Stack it outdoors at least one foot off the ground, stickered every 12" to 16" and keep it covered. I will go through every 3 - 4 months and rotate the boards from the top of the stack to the bottom and end for end as well as turning the faces over. I feel that this process will help it to dry evenly and work some warpage out of the boards.
Curt,
I agree with everything said here so far. Depending on how the sawyer charges, you may save considerably or you could save nothing. I would make the trees themselves the deciding factor. If you will get something not commercially available (either species or size) and it is of interest to you, go for it. If there are signs of figure, for example burls or crotch, go for it. If the trees are 8" diameter cedars, I would forget about milling them.
The general rule for drying lumber is, as Bob mentioned, one year per inch. If you so desire, you can have the lumber kiln dried to speed up the process. Use lots of stickers. As a friend of mine says, "Cut as many stickers as you think you need... and then cut some more." Air movement is paramount.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Curt,
In my experience, it's essential that you use dry stickers, not green stickers from the current project. Green stickers will stain the wood and it won't sand out.
Greg
Good advice, thanks.
Without doubt, the most abundant hardwood on the property is Oak. However, there's plenty of pecan, maple, and poplar (which I'm least interested in). If any of you know of some southern vareties that grow naturally & make for good stock, let me know, there's a good chance it's on this lot (80 acres).
You won't find any cherry just walking aroung in a forest down here. The humidity and heat is too hostile for them. They're hard enough to keep domestically. There are several peach & apple trees around that my grandfather planted years ago, but I doubt I'll go after those.
Ok, so I think I'll head out there soon to have a look at what is really available. Can you guys recommend any resources for information on harvesting your own?
Thanks.
Pecan is in the hickory family and a terrific wood, my personal favorite of all domestic hardwoods. I have some which is very dramatic in grain and color. Of course pecan's strength is unchallenged, suitable for axe or hammer handles and also makes extremely tough wear surfaces for flooring, steps, or table/workbenches. I have a neighbor with a sawmill too, I have made limited use of his services as he refuses to charge me anything. I like to split out shorter stock for turning, hewing, or shaving to shape. My current preference for rustic finishes which celebrate the hand tool markings really makes this type of wood harvesting efficient and satisfying.
When considering wood for heirloom type projects that celebrate the natural character of the woods and their colors and graining the air dried woods are far more desirable than kiln dried stock (which is invariably MUCH less vibrant). This adds value to home harvested lumber that is NOT comparable to commercially available hardwood stock.
Around here (MO) we have lots of cherry (not the fruit type... black cherry) which makes some terrific spoons. We also have most everything else and I like persimmon and locust a lot! One that I'd like to try is pawpaw. Sassafrass is quite lightweight and I have heard that it makes great paddles (I have some and would like to try this, though paddles are mostly sentimental for me now as poles have proved VASTLY more effective as tools for propelling my canoe). Perhaps I will invent a hybrid poaddle!
Contact your state Department of Agriculture or Forestry or the like. In most states they will provide free on site evaluation of the wood you have and recommend how to best maintain and use the woodlot. With that many acres there is some chance that you could actually make some money in addition to getting some cabinet wood.John White
By all means find someone locally who harvests his own trees and pay him a visit to see what you're getting into. Woodfinder.com, The Forestry Forum and Woodweb are sources. Much of the advise you get otherwise is from woodworkers with similar dreams who've never actually converted a tree.
The hard part ain't the milling, it's getting the trees to the mill and handling the green lumber. You'll have to do that even if you hire out the milling, and it requires a sizable investment in equipment. Common construction backhoes and forklifts, while handy in the stack yard, aren't rough-terrain equipment suitable for most woodlots, few farm tractors will skid much of a log safely, and few trees are easily milled where they fall.
For equipment money you can use the money you'd normally pay for a gym membership, as with an efficient operation you'll be lifting between 10 and 18 thousand pounds of green boards and slash per day from your knees to your shoulders. Then you will also produce much more lumber than you can use, and as non durable species won't last forever in stacks in your climate without a lot of maintenance, you'll have to find a local market for it.
Your local County Agent and State Forester can provide local advise on managing your woodlot. There are plenty of options, including a contract with a logger to harvest and sell your logs and leave a few on the landing for your personal use. A simple chainsaw mill like a Granberg is a good place to start for a taste. You'll need a big saw anyway, and the Granberg is always handy for harvesting in spots where skidders won't reach.
Do you have any experience with the Granberg mills? I was looking at their website yesterday and I have to admit that I'm pretty intrigued. Seems like I could just throw it in the truck and ride off for a day of milling lumber.
I still have to investigate what the guy down the road will charge exactly, but I kind of like the idea of being self sufficient. Plus, the farm is about 1.5 hours from my house, so I can't leave anyting of great value (like an expensive mill) down there.
Curt
Oh, I've used most types of mills. You could borrow one of mine to try out but the drive from Alabama is a bit far.You'll need a Granberg Alaskan, a couple long 2X4's, double hearing protection, a big saw with a 32-36" bar, some ripping chains, a peavy and a falling axe and wedges. If you aren't experienced at safely wedging down trees get someone who is to teach you.With the Granberg you can mill the tree where it falls, and only have to get your truck within carrying distance of the lumber.Then if it turns out you like the work we can talk about more efficient harvesting and milling. And if you don't like the work you'll need that gear to properly care for your woodlot anyway. Remember the hard part isn't the milling, it's feeding and clearing the mill.Here's some articles on milling and drying:http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=smalser&file=articles_291.shtmlhttp://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=18604http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=499http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=8378
Edited 2/15/2008 2:38 pm by BobSmalser
The Granberg mill is a handy gizmo. But it aint no picnic. A couple hours with one will leave you exhausted and wiped out. Even if you're in good shape. On the other hand it's one lower cost alternative to getting the mill to a tree in place where a bandsaw mill would be hard to get to.
I have an Alaska mill I use to harvest local woods, and I totally agree with what Bob says. The amount of physical work required to handle the boards after they are cut can be astonishing. As others have said, make sure you have enough dry stickers, a moisture meter is a big help too. I wouldn't plan on using the basement, the amount of moisture that will come off the boards will cause mould to flourish in your house. Sticker and stack it outside, I use big fan(s) to help with air movement when the logs are freshly cut. Don't forget to seal the ends, I have also experienced better luck with log sealer rather than paint, but it does depend on the species. For me, the main benefit is to get hard to find species, and to get bigger slabs of more common species. Dan
In one of the above posts someone suggested using a tractor to move logs.
Even if you have a large tractor, this is very dangerous. If you drag the log on the ground you can hit something that grabs the log (stump, rock) and flip the tractor. If you use a boom and lift the front end of the log off the ground ,it is safer, but more likey to lift the front tires up and effect the steering. Also the boom is tricky and any lateral motion like the log swinging will tip the tractor sideways.
I skidded and loaded a dozen or so big locust trees this way once and had some frightening moments. I wont do this again.
Frank
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Go for it, first paint the ends with any paint.Paint several coats on each cut end to help prevent checking. Place the boards in the barn at least a foot off the floor if it is dirt. If the floor is concrete or wood,just donage will do. The wood has to be stickered and either strapped or weighted down. Like other posts said, about a year per inch of thickness.Then bring home what you need and sticker it again in your shop for four weeks. Buy a moisture meter, I do not know the relative humidity in Alabama but I'll guess it is about 11%. When you get the boards down to 11% or lower then you can mill them.
Unless the sawyer is very expensive, then you will save quite a bit of money on your wood.
mike
Mike,
I'm curious of which type of paint (oil or water-based) and how many coats you used. I tried latex paint and the end result was checked lumber painted white. I've since switched over the LV's End Grain Sealer and had excellent results.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Any paint that is left over. Oil or latex will work if you use several coats. The cut end should be fairly decent,not jagged or broken. I've used either oil or latex,indoor or outdoor with success. Just make sure there is a heavy coat of paint on the butts.
mike
flairworks.
Oil based paint will seal better than latex will.. If I use latex I paint a second coat two weeks later and a third coat a month later.
Oil I can get by with two coats usually..
but that waxy end grain sealer is a one time application. however I buy mis-mixed paint on sale for $2.00 a gallon and I had to pay up to $30 for a gallon of the waxy stuff.
(sometimes I'm too cheap for my own good)
If there is any worthwhile lumber in the woodlot, I'd go for it even if you offer to split the harvest with the sawmill owner. First of all, if there are unusual species in there, they are worth having just because you can't find them commercially or at least not readily so. Secondly, cleanup harvest allow the remainder of the trees to grow larger and more quickly. All the other posts here raise valid points. Just go into it with some good plans. One point I haven't seen raised is how you will move big logs once they are on the ground? Even a 8' x 12" log weighs at least several hundred pounds or more. Unless you have a log arch, a skidder, a tractor or some other equipment, getting even a trailer mill to it could be problematic.
I routinely harvest trees from my property in southern NH. I have a tractor to move them and a hand held portable bandsaw mill with a chainsaw powerhead drive to resaw them. It is fun, profitable, addicting, and a nice hobby. But it is hard work to slab the logs and it can be a pain to rotate drying lumber several times depending on the quantity. It also requires a substantial amount of room. I have a 20' x 20' upper barn loft that is full of drying lumber I prepared. And I am planning my next work for this spring so I will need even more space.
Good Luck
Thanks for the post AEW,
I don't know about any "rare" species. I guess it's possible, but I haven't really done a thorough inventory yet either. As far as moving the logs goes, I've got access to a 4x4 and probably a tractor that my grandfather built a huge sled for years ago to drag around big bails of hay. It should be able to drag at least a log or two at a time.
Of course, that's part of the appeal with a mobile chainsaw mill, right? Just drop it, mill it, & haul off your bounty, & a lot of fire wood.
Curt
don't store it in the basement.
1. might have bugs
2. spouse will complain
use the barn
I'm afraid any just any paint on log ends will provide you nothing but disappointment in the denser hardwood species. They will check badly.
The professional solution is a wax emulsion called Anchorseal. Works very well and is available from Bailey's logging supply in California and Tennessee. It plus the shipping is spendy, however.
A cheaper and just as effective solution outlined in the articles I posted is Henry #107 Tar Emulsion available inexpensively at the roofing section of Home Depot. It's sufficiently thick to seal end grain successfully. It's important to paint it on the log ends the same day they are bucked. This dense Pacific Madrone treated with Henry's has been inthe stacks for several years with zero checking.
There's a guy just a mile or two down the road with one of those mobile sawmills that would be willing to mill the timber for me for a fee. So far so good...
That is a deal I can not find in my neck of the woods. If that is the case you are off to a great start. From my experience here are a few considerations on felling trees, cutting and storage:
1. Don't go to far into the woods and fell a tree that will wind up a "leaner"
2. Unless you are very experienced at cutting large trees get some help and instruction. I never cut large trees without a spotter. A falling branch can KILL YOU.
3. Do you have a tractor with a drag bar to skid the logs? Wear a helmet. I had a cable snap and come back and whip the roll bar then come around and hit me in the shoulder. No fun and it was hard to push the clutch back down.
4. Check the sawyers rig. If he doesn't have a set of hydraulic arms on his saw, you will need to build a roll rack with something like railroad ties to roll the 16' logs onto the bed of the saw rig with a pivy. You'll most likely need two.
5. Wet boards are heavy. If you get into some wide poplar(18-20"wide and 16'long), you will need help racking and stacking. The sawyer is not available for the gut check.
6. I don't bring green wood in the house till its down to 12%. Its just easier to air dry it outside. My technique.
7. Milling your own timbers is a great way to get some really special stock but keep in mind: its big time labor. No easy shortcuts.
8. I always cut late winter early spring before the trees fill back up with water. It makes a difference. A winter cut is a better cut.
Not to seem too discouraging but there are important things to consider in the balance. You have a better deal than I have. For me to get a woodmizer on site, I have to split the cut wood 50-50 or pay. The sawyer always points out his new blade for the job. If it hits a nail, the second one is comes with a bill. Fair is fair.
With on-site milling you save a bunch of time and effort with transportation. Thats a big benefit.
All said and done, I would recommend doing some homework and give it a try. If nothing else comes from it- you will get an education and you won't feel so bad paying the big bucks for boards from the local yard.
dan
Curt:
Smalser and some of the others who have responded are in the business and really know what they are talking about. I, on the other hand can only share the recent experience of a guy who has grown up with a chain saw, but has not harvested much wood for lumber purposes.
My parents live in a virgin forest. We never harvest anything that is not dead or down, and little of that. Last summer, a big wind topped a couple of 28" forest walnuts with about 30 feet to the first crotch. Over the year, three ancient white oaks also came down. Right before Christmas, we took down the standing snags and cut up the downed trees, with the result that we took about 19 logs to the mill. The largest of them was about 30 inches inside the bark at the wide end, and the smallest was about 12 inches. All were 10 or 12 feet long, except for a few walnut crotches.
We hired about a day and a half of a heavy fork loader and operator. That, with a lot of chains skidded our wood with ease from as far as 150 feet downhill. We had a driveway that could be used, or it would have been harder for the tractor to back with the chains. The fork loaded the logs very handily. My friend and co-amateur-lumberman has a Unimog which he drowe out. Heavy as that truck is, it took several loads.
The sawyer is custom cutting the wood, stickering, and air drying down to about 15% to 18%, after which he will finish it in a kiln. Our total cost (not counting the fuel for the Unimog) is going to be in the rrange $0.85 to $1.10 per bf, depending on the ultimate yeild. Planing the wood would be extra.
Some of the wood will be so-so to poor, of course, but much will be prime black walnut and q-sawn old growth oak in the 6 -inch to 13-inch wide class.
Not hard to figure the economics of that.
Joe
I have lots of wood.... cut by myself - stacked- and dried.
D0 IT!!! a. you get lots of different grain patterns. lots of wide boards
b. always saw not less then 1 1/8 for a 4 quarter board....boards
shrink. split , warp.
c. always saw 2/3 of the log 1 1/8 the rest 11/2 to 1 3/4 nice to have some 5 quarter material from the same log.
d. paint the ends of your log / boards with polyurethane slows down
checks -I used comercial wax when I did mine.
figure the cost of one 2 foot log... square the log up you have say 18 x 18 piece
of log... makes say 16 boards 18 inches wide figure 10-20 percent loss for cracks
etc. now go price that amount of board feet of lumber.... put that cost against
the cost to saw the log.... bigggg cost save. about 1 year air drying for a 1 inch
thick board. it works.
There's a great book about harvesting your own trees called Harvesting Urban Timber. You can get it on Amazon and they have a web site - http://www.harvestingurbantimber.com
I have that book, it was given to me as a gift, but a book that actually contains a lot more useful content is "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" by Will Maloff. It's a Taunton Press book that is out of print unfortunately, but I was able to locate a copy in a suburban library and photocopy. It is well worth digging around for. I recommend it hands down over the other book. Dan
No brainer. Work out a deal with the sawyer and a good ole boy pulp wood hauler. You should be able to get all the logs hauled out and milled at no out of pocket cost. The only cost should be their share of the logs. If done correctly, you could shortly have a nice stock to work with. With good weather, the time to get it out is in the next 6-8 months. Don't discount the poplar. It is in demand by many commercial furniture makers. I live in north MS and would love to have your situation. Good luck. It sounds like fun.
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