Replies

1. 
   saschafer | May 15, 2008 01:19am | #1

   Verify that the hinges on the right side are correctly engaged. With some brands of Euro hinges, it is surprisingly easy to slide the two halves of the hinge together in such a way that they appear at first glance to be engaged, when in fact they are not. If the top hinge were engaged but the bottom or not, or vice versa, you would end up with a considerably tilted door.

   Also, I assume you are aware that Euro hinges are adjustable, right? If for some reason one hinge were at one end of its adjustment and the other hinge were at the opposite end, you could also end up with a tilted door.

   -Steve

    

2. 
   KeithNewton | May 15, 2008 02:17am | #2

   While you mention getting the styles plumb, you make no mention of getting the bottoms level with each other. Also measure the doors diagonally from corner to opposite corner to make sure that you cut the doors square.

   Report back.

   Also describe the details of the door.

3. 
   sapwood | May 15, 2008 03:38am | #3

   Are you sure that the cabinet is sitting on something flat and is not racked?

4. 
   ring | May 15, 2008 07:17am | #4

   Senor,

   Go over every step methodically:

   - Are the door frames square?
   - Is the cabinet opening square? (check diagonals)
   - Do you have 6 identical hinges? (A full overlay and a half-overlay can look almost the same and cause the problem you describe if there's a mix up)
   - Are the hinges set to more or less the same adjustment as a starting point?
   - Are your 35mm holes all the same distance from the door edge?

   If all of the above are OK and it's still not right, then you have a mystery cabinet. Cut whatever you need to make it look good AS A LAST RESORT ONLY.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   SenorDorado | May 15, 2008 03:44pm | #5

   Ring Your logic makes sense, and here's what I know for now. The cabinet opening is not square when I check the diagonals.
   - I'm thinking about installing shims to correct this problem. How would I go about doing this? The opening is between 2 2x4 vertical studs that frames a knee wall in an attic. I attached a piece of 1"x to each of the vertical studs and ensured they were plumb. The top frame horizontal member is sloped downwards to the left when checked with a level. My face frame is nailed to the 2x4's. My Euro hinges are attached to the 1x's on the vertical studs. My theory was that if the vertical studs are plumb then when the hinges are attached to the studs the doors will be hung correctly. The doors are panels of 3/4" MDF that I cut on my table saw. Diagonals are =. The hinges are from IKEA and are labeled the same. I am told by their tech rep that all Euro hinges from IKEA are full overlay. I ran through an adjustment check starting at a common starting point. The job site is 1 1/2 hrs. away and I'll have to take a couple of pictures to send. The 35mm holes are setup correctly using a fence clamped to my drill press table that is set for a 1/4" space from the door edge. Thats all for now. Thanks for your reply and support. Work safely! Senor Dorado

1. 
   ring | May 15, 2008 04:13pm | #6

   "The top frame horizontal member is sloped downwards to the left when checked with a level." OK, there's the culprit right there. If you're working far from your shop, then make a cardboard piece that exactly fits the actual opening on the site, (or at least the top part of it). Take this back to the tablesaw in the shop and cut the tops of your doors at the angle you've got to make them fit over the opening correctly. If you've thereby shortened them too much, then add a piece at the bottom...it's much less obvious there.Alternatively, you could add another 1"x to the top frame member, planed at a slope in order to get a new, smaller, but square opening.You'll never get the doors right with hinge adjustments if the opening is out of square.And BTW, whenever I need to fit doors to an existing opening, I ALWAYS make a complete frame for the doors, and attach that frame to whatever walls are there. It's the "pre-hung door" system, and it keeps the jobsite frustrations to a minimum. good luck.David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   SenorDorado | May 16, 2008 05:57pm | #9

   Thanks David I went to the job site yesterday and used a story stick to measure the diagonals of the opening. From upper left corner to lower right corner = 60 5/8". From upper right corner to lower left corner = 59 5/8". I also looked at the 4 corners of the opening using my carpenters square. Left bottom corner is square.
   Left top corner has a gap of 3/16" from the bottom of the horizontal frame to my square. Right bottom corner has a gap of 3/16" from the right vertical frame to my square.
   Right top corner has a gap of 3/8" from the bottom of the horizontal frame to my square. So... It actually looks like the top frame member slopes downwards to the right, conversely to my previous statement. No matter I think I understand your technique. I also took some pictures which are attached so I can show you where I'm at. I read your last, and need to make a wise decision on a plan which will be best based upon what I have already done. I'm thinking that I will try your alternative and make another 1"x planed at a slope in order to attach to the top frame. This, in my mind would be easiest, and leave the trim option till last as you suggested previously. When this is completed I have one question: How do I go about actually laying out and attaching the Euro-hinges framing mounts? This is still a gray area in my mind right now. I might be getting a little lost in the sauce, as some of this is new to me. Any thoughts or advise would be appreciated. BTW- I am reading everyone else's input and greatly appreciate your time and thoughts. As always- work safely! Senor Dorado

   
1. 
   ring | May 16, 2008 06:53pm | #10

   Judging from the photos it looks like you've got enough overlay to just raise all the hinge plates on the right-hand door by whatever you need to make the doors equal height at the top.  Then use the hinge adjustments from both sides to close the gap between the doors at the bottom.  I think you should be able to fix the look rather painlessly just by doing those things.   Don't back up and try to do it again, just fix the look as easily as you can.

   For future reference, if you make pre-hung doors then it makes everything easier.  For instance, we always drill the hinges a certain distance from the top and bottom edges of the doors.  The stops on the drilling machine are always the same, and we have a little jig that places the hinge plate at the corresponding distance from the corners of the cabinets. 

   If I were going to fit doors to the opening in your photo, I would have made a complete frame of 1"x4"s which is perfectly square, and which will fit inside the opening without distortion.  The doors are hung on that frame in the shop.  At the jobsite you mount the entire assembly using shims as needed.  (I often put a temporary X-bracing on the rear of the frame to make sure it stays square during mounting).  Then just run an appropriate molding all around to cover the varying gaps that will be left.

    David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

2. 
   SenorDorado | May 16, 2008 08:29pm | #11

   David Thank you once again for your great advice. I'll let ya know how it all comes out. This is the first opening of 5, once I get this one down, the others will be a cake walk. I'm thinking the pre-hung technique will be the way to go. As always work safely! Senor Dorado

2. 
   oldusty | May 15, 2008 04:49pm | #7

    Senor ,

              You said the doors are full overlay , you have a face frame , but you say you attached the hinges to the 1X jamb not the face frame , is that correct ?

          With overlay doors you would attach the hinge brackets to the edge of the face frame not to the jamb unless it was a flush inset application .

         Even if the 2 X 4 opening is out of square as long as your face frame is close to square the doors should fit fine . As Ring mentioned we always fasten the doors to the face like a prehung door then attach to the wall .

                 good  luck            dusty

5. 
   Dave45 | May 15, 2008 04:59pm | #8

   A few possible problems come to mind here, and you need to check them all before you decide on a "fix".

   • Cabinet and/or doors not square.  Even a cabinet that is dead square in the shop can get racked when it's installed.  You may need to "tweak" the installation.
   • A mixture of hinges and/or plates.  I ran into this just last week.  A vanity door was way out of whack and I realized that I had used one overlay hinge/plate and one inset.  I got an awshid for that one. - lol
   • The cup holes may not be inset the same distance from the door edge.  Small variations can sometimes be adjusted out, but sometimes shims or different plates are necessary.  For the past couple of years, I've used a plastic template to mark the hinge cup hole centers and this problem has disappeared.
   • I like to "center" all of the hinge adjustments before I hang a door.  Whenever possible, I clamp a support at the door bottom and hold the door in place in an open position.  Then, I rotate each hinge plate into place and run in a mounting screw.  This usually gets the door very close and only minor adjustments are needed to dial it in.
   • On three hinge doors, I usually attach the top and bottom plates and make my adjustments before I attach the center hinge plate.