I would like to move into sharpening my saws myself. I was wondering if one of you gentlemen has a design for a wooden hand saw vice? I thought I had one saved in my vaorite but I cannot seem to locate it.
Thanks!
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Try here:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/bSmalser/z_art/twoFilHorses/twoHorses1.asp
I made one just like the picture on the right and have been using it for years. It works much better than one you could buy.
If you have Tage Frid's woodworking 3-volume set, he describes an excellent saw vise made of plywood that will fit in a woodworking vise. If you don't have this 3-volume set, buy it. It's an excellent read full of very useful methods to do all sorts of things, a lot of which is with hand tools.
The essentials to the vise are 2 plywood pieces about 8"X12", placed face-to-face and hinged on one of the 8" sides with a piano hinge. The vise jaws are two pieces of hardwood beveled at about 12 degrees on thier lengthwise dimensions, screwed on the opposing faces of the 8" ends of the plywood leaves (the ends that don't have the piano hinge, naturally). The final pieces are two 8"X2"X1" hardwood blocks screwed across the outside of the plywood leaves about 4" up from the piano hinge. These two blocks are there for convenience to prevent the saw vise from dropping to the bottom of your bench vise when in use.
Before I bought a Disston antique metal one, I used Frid's design often. It works just as well as the Disston, it's just that the Disston is prettier.
You should be able to get a good Disston, or other maker, on ebay farily cheap.
Alan - planesaw
Kungur,
Use Japanese saws. Then just buy replacement blades. They cut like the wind.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
>Use Japanese saws. Then just buy replacement blades. They cut like the wind.<Spoken exactly like something a salesperson at Woodcraft would say, which is why when I go in there I avoid those people like the plague.Here's the opposite to that philosophy: Be independent. Be self-contained. Break the link between buying things and working with hand tools. Learn to care for and maintain your tools. Be able to throw a bunch of hand tools in the car and drive to the lake house and build something, sharpening your own saws when necessary,...For the original poster - I built Tage Frid vise a few years ago, then wound up buying an old, cheap, no-name cast-iron saw vise on ebay - I like the saw up a little bit higher off the bench top - the cast iron one allows for that. Good luck.
Hi Ed,
Your opinion on being independant, and caring for good tools is THE way to go. I fully agree with you.
I retired from 28 years at NASA and 10 years at other places, and my wife told me to go work somewhere part time just so I wouldn't be "underfoot" all the time. So I went to Woodcraft. I enjoy my two days a week there. I don't do it for the $8/hr they pay. I don't get any more if I sell things than if I don't. I try to use my 40 years of woodworking experience to help people solve their own problems. I don't try to sell them things -- but to help them solve problems. Almost always, there are more than one way to solve a problem. Some folks, like yourself, enjoy spending time sharpening saws. Others just like to use the saws, and don't want to learn how to do sharpening by hand. For them, the Japanese saws are a godsend.
Personally, I enjoy using the Japanese saws. For cutting dovetails, I have a Lie Nielsen and a Japanese Dozuki. I learned on the Dozuki. The LN is a bit harder to control, but it was worth the time to master it.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hi Mel,Thanks for agreeing with me, but I spell it "independent" - similar to the way the name of the holiday is spelled.Thanks for the explanation of your work at Woodcraft - I still avoid you sales clerk like the plague. I hate it when sales clerks say, "If you need any help, don't hesitate to ask,..." I'm 47 yr. old, I'm here to look at tools at my own pace and according to what piques my own independent interest, I don't need to share a moment with you, and if I need any I help, I DO know how to ask - matter of fact, if I need any help, you'll have a hard time getting away from me - you would need to go hide in the employee breakroom or something. But that's just a pet peeve - part of the fun of shopping at Woodcraft - the overly talkative, annoying and vacuous sales clerk. Hope you aren't like that.
Have a good day in the neighborhood.
You can buy a Dozuki at http://www.hidatool.com/shop/shop.html
or another at http://www.hidatool.com/shop/shop.htmlI have found the replaceable blades to last for years if you take care of them.
Good on you.Correct me if I'm wrong, but the guy asked about hand saw sharpening, a subject that doesn't get covered a whole lot. So why would we talk about Japanese saws? Why not put that in another thread? It's great that they are a "godsend" for some folks. But how did those types of folks ever learn to cut to a line before Japanese saws were available? Are there some people that could never learn to cut a dovetail joint if it weren't for Japanese saws? As far as sharpening western hand saws (what this thread was originally going to be about): I'm still a novice but I can do it comfortably down to about 13 ppi for rip, maybe something a little less for crosscut. My only contributions to the collective body of knowledge is that Tom Law's video is good - nearly worn my VHS copy out, and seeing what you're doing is half the battle. I like the saw vise up higher, where the teeth are closer to eye level. And I think it's important to stop every once in a while and sort of shake out your arms and hands so you don't get cramped up from working with small, confined movements. I was kind of looking forward to hearing some of the experts talk about this subject.Take care, Ed
Ed and others,
Saw sharpening (Western saws) is easier than any written description will show. I fretted for more than a few years before trying a rip saw. I fretted some more before trying a crosscut. In every case (saw) that I sharpened, the saw cut better after sharpening than before.
Tom Law's video is good for viewing the techniques. Also a booklet "Keeping the Cutting Edge" by Harold Payson. Pete Taran's site is great.
For those of you on the fence thinking about trying: don't wait any longer for it ain't hard to do!
T.Z.
I was traveling out west a few years ago, housesitting for a friend of mine in Montana and I picked up a vintage Disston No.7 at an antique store for the princely sum of $5. Big ol' giant saw 30 inches long, ornate applewood handle, not used much at all. Dated from about 1895. As I cleaned the rust off of it and cleaned it up, I began to think how this was the equivalent of the portable circular saw when towns and cities of the west were built in the 19th century. Went to Lowe's, bought a triangular file, dug up a reference on the internet and had a go at sharpening it. Lo and behold it worked! What a great feeling! I forget what all I worked on building for two weeks, but it was the first time I had ever done woodworking outside in sub-freezing weather, the first time I had done woodworking with the majestic granduer of the snow-capped Rocky Mountains looming over me, and the first time I had ever worked with a saw that I filed myself. What fun! You couldn't pay to have that much fun.
I've felt the same way about sharpening. Too many spend their time asking and talking about whether to do it: simply try it and you'll find that the only thing difficult is explaining how to do it.
T.Z.
Kungur,
Samlser's file horse is good because it 1) will have the work at a height which suits and 2)will clamp a saw blade so that there is no slack which causes the file to skip and not bite properly.
If you are one those (few, it appears) who prefer using an engineer type vice for woodworking then it is easy to make up a contraption which suits your saws and holds them firmly in that vice. For longer saws you can just use a couple of g clamps at each end, but it is crucial that the saw is held firmly in the middle as well- that applies to home made contraptions rather than the genuine saw filing vice.
If you are keen to sharpen your own saws there are videos etc as mentioned, but it is nice to have on hand a ready reference such as the saw service manual published by Wiltshire File co, which clearly sets out breasting (jointing), setting , filing and fixing faults such as wandering to one side etc.
You need to see well so there is a need for good light and having the work at a comfortable height both for vision and physical comfort. A head loup visor thing is a great help.
I think that saw sharpening and setting, especially of smaller cross cut teeth of the range 10 ppi and more , is punishment for the wicked and best sent out to professionals -but you should still know what to do yourself.Who knows, you may acquire a life -long affliction which is useful.
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwsawvice.html
http://norsewoodsmith.com/node/57
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=handtools&Number=3278960&Forum=f11&Words=%2Bsaw%20%2Bvise%20-RE%3A&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=3278960&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post3278960
Just a small point, but set before you sharpen, otherwise you chance undoing your hard work.
Ah well,... I was probably a little too rough in my gripe about Woodcraft. But yeah, the comment about cutting yourself with the carving chisels - that would have have ticked me off. On most days I would be able to just ignore it and not react,...but it would be a challenge.
The store you want to be in if you're being harassed by sales clerks is Victoria's Secret. Please God, allow me to be attended to by good-looking, young college girls! Hope Granny likes the negligee I bought for her birthday,...
Read post #3.
For the piano hinge I used an old leather belt. On the two boards I left the top square, makes for easier show of angles and spacing. Put in parallel bench vise sit in front and off you go. Things don't get cheaper and better than this.
Buy Tage books.
Hilmar
Wineman,
"Okay, I�ve cooled off"
Why cool off? If you enjoy staying stirred up, just stay stirred up, and enjoy the ride? Never apologize for being stirred up. People who get themselves stirred up a lot have rights too. They are people, and nave the same rights as calmer people.
Some people ride a roller coaster to get their blood going. Others listen to Rush Limbaugh. Some get themselves tied up in Knots. (yuk yuk yuk I thought that was pretty funny.)
Nothing great was ever done without someone getting excited!
Let's all get excited and go do something great in woodworking!!!
Have fun.
Mel
PS I enjoy my part time job at Woodcraft. I really try to only help those customers that want help, and to leave the rest alone. Any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated. I passed Ed's experiences on to my coworkers today. On Wednesday, I will read them your message. The guys and girls I work with really would like folks to leave happy. I work in the Springfield, VA store. Please stop in and say hello.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
There is a good saw vice design and sharpening advice in Anthony Guidice's book "Seven Essentials of Woodworking". I got good results first time following this book.
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