Replies

1. 
   Samson | Nov 24, 2009 09:20pm | #1

   What vintage Stanley did you get?   Are you talking about a big box one with plastic handles or a 1970's maroon colored handyman thing or one of the new SW types or what?  If it was not a pre-WW2 vintage Stanley 4, the chances are good that it is POS that will not sharpen well or plane well.  Smoothers, especially, need to be finely tuned to really shine.  A jack, on the other hand, might do a passable job with some flaws.  

   Where do you live?  Maybe there is a Knotter near you that you could visit to find out some more first hand. 

   To answer your question directly, no, you do not have to spend a ton of money to have a plane epiphany.  A $30 eBay 4 will do fine.  You will need to learn to sharpen the blade, if you don't know how, but a $10 honing jig and few sheets of sandpaper and piece of scrap glass can get that done in a hurry for even the most rank beginner.

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 24, 2009 09:37pm | #2

   Lol, plane epiphany, I like that. Ok not sure of vintage it looks new, was in a cardboard box, it does have dark maroon colored handles. As for knotters I doubt it I live in gulf coast area of Texas. A very tiny town called Sargent which is about a 2 hr drive south of Houston. It would be so much easier if I had that option, as for ebay I tried that and always get outbid or price gets really unreasonable. I had considered trying to make one myself but thought the better of it considering my lack of exp with planes and limited tools and budget. I'm not commercial just like to make gifts for friends and family, and enjoy creating things made out of a wonderful resource. Most of the wood I use have access to is home depot, lowes stuff.

1. 
   Samson | Nov 24, 2009 09:44pm | #4

   If you are not comfortable with eBay, there are several good old tool dealers, like Patrick Leach and others, who could set you up with a solid vintage user grade 4 for a fair price (I'm guessing in the $50 to $75 range).  They are more than eBay because they have picked the good ones (no defects) and are standing behind it - so paying a bit more is worth it for someone in your position.

   If you want to really go whole hog, a $40 LN, Hock, etc., Stanley replacement blade supes up the vintage planes nicely.

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 24, 2009 10:06pm | #6

   I sent an email for the pat leach tool list so maybe that will be an option.

2. 
   nazard | Nov 25, 2009 02:08am | #17

   Baddraw,

   If you bought the plane new, I'd return it.  A new Stanley "Professional" #4 can be made to work reasonably well but it takes considerable fettling.  Better to start with something a bit less challenging.  Welcome to the wide world of planes: once you get the hang of it there is no turning back!

   -Jerry

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 25, 2009 04:39am | #20

   No i didn't get it new, yet it looks new. After looking closely at it i'm wondering if it is a stanley, it says bailey on the front of the sole and made in england on the back. After watching one of the many videos on tauntons i'm wondering now what the actual size of the opening in the sole should be with blade removed it looks rather large to me?

1. 
   nazard | Nov 25, 2009 07:30am | #22

   Yep, it be a Stanley.  Depending on its age, and the relative position of the sun and the moon at the moment that it was conceived, the plane could turn out OK, or not OK.  As to the mouth opening, 7/32 - 1/4 would be ball park.  Don't give up yet!

2. 
   JeffHeath | Nov 26, 2009 01:08am | #26

   Please allow me to give you some advice. The plane you have is one of the last variety that Stanley made just before they stopped making that style of plane. They are quite cheap, and not very well made. I had, at one time, made the mistake of purchasing several of them for teaching beginning woodworking classes in my shop. The planes were exactly as yours, and were more trouble than they were worth in the long run. All required some major flattening, frog tuning, and blade work before they worked properly, and I know what I'm doing. A beginner would have had a nightmare trying to get one to take proper shavings.If you want to enjoy the hand plane process of woodworking, your best bet is to first invest in a good tutorial of exactly how and why a hand plane does what it does. Garrett Hack wrote a terrific book called, fittingly, The Handplane Book, published by our hosts, Taunton. It is an excellent book on hand planes. It will teach you the "how's and why's", and more importantly, give you a step by step tutorial on how to tune up a plane to make it sing.I have tuned quite a few planes in my day. I still have a $10 garage sale find #5 jack plane that I went through completely. I flattened the bottom, and tuned up the mating surface between the frog and its base, the cap iron, etc.......and spent the money for a Hock blade. I've got about $40.00 and 2 hours of time invested in it, and it works almost as well as my $300.00+ Lie Nielsen planes.Don't get discouraged. The plane you have is nothing more than a paper weight. Get a better one. Look for Pre WWII Stanleys. They are plentiful, and cheap. Best of all, they were made reasonably well, and after a little bit of knowledge-minded fettling, they will take shavings with the best of them.One year from now, after following this advice, please come back here and post a picture of all the planes you've bought and restored to perfect working order, as well as pictures of the tabletops that you have perfectly smoothed using them. You'll eliminate the most irritating thing about woodworking by adopting hand planing techniques and becoming proficient with a plane.....sawdust. Imagine a shop floor that only had shavings on it, and a air-breathing work environment with no dust.Ask questions if you have them.Jeff

3. 
   baddraw | Nov 26, 2009 03:14am | #28

   Thank you all for the tips, I certainly hope to come back a year from now older and wiser and hopefully well along with my own plane collection. As for the book you are the second one that has mentioned it and i understand its supposed to be a free download, where might I find it?

4. 
   jeffs | Nov 26, 2009 03:17am | #29

   The Handplane book from Hack is available on the member home page (it is a paid subscription benefit- it alone is worth the price of membership)

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/member

   I have it in hardcopy and think it is really good if you are into planes (and hand tools in general).

   Happy Thanksgiving to all-

   Jeff

2. 
   HWG | Nov 24, 2009 09:41pm | #3

   Get the blade really sharp, as explained above, and keep adjusting it until you take just the finest of shaving, so thin that it is translucent, and you will love the feel of it when it glides along.  Start out edge planing a board gripped solidly in your vise, so that you're not fighting the wood trying to hold it in place.  Yes, it will cut even better once the sole of the plane is super flat, the blade is scary sharp, etc etc, but you don't have to have it to that condition to see how nice the feel of plane can be and why so many people love it.  But then remember that not everyone does love it and that is OK too.  I've never had one of the "high dollar" planes, but maybe one of these days...

   Edit -- Opps, sorry Samson, this was for Baddraw

   Woody

   Edited 11/24/2009 1:44 pm by HWG

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 24, 2009 10:04pm | #5

   Thanks for the info, i've tried adjusting multiple times to no avail. The plane either gouges the heck out of a board that was smooth or does nothing at all. I.ve adjusted and read articles on tauntons and adjusted some more and read some more. Been going on like this for days all to no avail. I keep trying till i get frustrated then i leave it alone for awhile and come back later.

1. 
   HWG | Nov 24, 2009 10:10pm | #7

   Like I said, start out edge planing and not surface planing, it is much easier to get the plane adjusted.  Strive for the thinnest of shavings.Woody

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 24, 2009 11:08pm | #8

   Ah, edge planing sorry i missed that. I'll have to see if i can rig up a way to hold the board for that. I need to get a proper workbench with a vise in it, we are low budget here. I'm an ex-truck driver trying to earn a living and take care of my ailing mother since dad passed away in jan. And it seemed a real shame to let dads very nice tablesaw go to waste, I do appreciate all the tips and replies.Edited 11/24/2009 3:12 pm ET by baddraw <!-- BADDRAW1 -->

   Edited 11/24/2009 3:13 pm ET by baddraw

2. 
   perizoqui | Nov 24, 2009 11:13pm | #9

   My advice: use it as a paperweight, and buy a Lie Nielsen for working actual wood:
   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=4Or, if you don't mind spending a teensy bit more:
   http://www.marcouplanes.co.nz/index.php/current-planes/marcour-s20aAll the best,
   ---Pedro

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 24, 2009 11:16pm | #10

   Yeah Lie-Neilsen would be nice assuming everyone is suited to hand-palning and has an unlimited amout of money to spend (ie planes starting at $350 ea).

2. 
   HWG | Nov 24, 2009 11:21pm | #11

   Yep, those are out of my price range too, but I've had some good planing with the garage sale planes that I've restored.  Not the best, granted, but they do level and smooth wood, and have a nice satisfying feel when you see/feel those beautiful thin shaving curl up.  Nice!Woody

3. 
   perizoqui | Nov 24, 2009 11:27pm | #12

   Okay, Lee Valley can get you going for a little more than half that:http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515This plane will do most everything.The way I look at it is by calculating how much I make in an hour, and then multiplying it by the number of hours it takes (realistically) to find, restore, and fettle a garage sale plane. You could just go to Woodcraft and try the difference. I know it's expensive, but it's so very worth it working with a good tool...
   ---Pedro

4. 
   baddraw | Nov 25, 2009 12:36am | #14

   Ok, thanks, 215 is still out of my budget right now. Was working for wal-mart $8.00 and hr and got let go for being a full time emp, so i'm on unemployment till i find something else. But I do appreciate the suggestions. maybe in the near future I can look at the veritas.

3. 
   derekcohen | Nov 25, 2009 08:47am | #24

   The plane either gouges the heck out of a board that was smooth or does nothing at all.

   From this description it sounds as though the sole of the plane is not co-planar with the mouth. As it stanmds, you either extend the blade too far to cut (and then it gouges) or not far enough (and it does not cut).

   If so, the plane may be fixable with lapping (it depends on how far out of wack it all is).

   You can do a search on the archives here for what to do (essentially, lapping the sole on sandpaper), but I must warn you that it is not as simple as it appears - very easy to do damage. However, given the symptoms, it should be looked into.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

4. 
   Bill_Anderson | Nov 26, 2009 12:53am | #25

   Try tightening down your frog.  What you say is happening sounds like what happens when he frog is loose.  You can get an initial shaving, then nothing happens subsequently.

5. 
   AZMO | Nov 26, 2009 09:27pm | #32

   Lots of great advice out here. Just a simple question, did you sharpen the blade correctly first? Is it sharp enough to cut some hair off of your arm. I can tell when mine get dull, they seem to slide over the top and not cut or jump right into a deep cut. May be the plane is OK, not great mind you, but without a sharp edge a LV plane is just a paper weight as well.

   Start with a sharp blade, Samson has the inexpensive route. I used a $7 dollar guide and wet dry sand paper on a piece of glass for years.

   AZMO                  <!----><!----><!---->

   -----------_o

   ---------_'-,>

   -------(*)/ (*)   http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com

2. 
   Eef | Nov 25, 2009 12:34am | #13

   bad,

   last year i fettled three pre-ww2a stanleys in hopes of using them. i too felt somewhat defeated afterwards. i mostly wanted to shoot miters, plane dovetailed end grain and become proficient at smoothing. if someone were keeping score, i would be the loser in one sense. this hand plane work takes practice. i imagine an out-of-the-box high end plane would lubricate the whole process. my next approach is going to be hock blades. wish me luck.
   eef

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 25, 2009 12:42am | #15

   I hear ya there eef, i want to get a feel for it too, hard to justify spending high dollar for something i may not use. Good luck with the hock and let me know how it turns out might be an option for me.

1. 
   Eef | Nov 25, 2009 01:24am | #16

   bad,
   after the afore-mentioned fettling and some practice, jointing an edge by hand was satisfying. smoothing and shooting are going to need that thicker blade, i'm pretty sure.
   eef

2. 
   ctsjr | Nov 25, 2009 04:31am | #18

   BaddrawI'm in Orange, and while I'm no expert, I'd be happy to work with you to see if I can help. I've got an old Stanley 4 that I use for soft woods. My main smoother is a Veritas Bevel Up Smooth Plane. Let me know if you are interested. I'm a couple of hours away. Happy Thanksgiving.Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"

1. 
   baddraw | Nov 25, 2009 04:34am | #19

   Yes I would definetly be interested in any help I can get especially local help. I'm not from here so you may have to clue me into where orange is.

1. 
   ctsjr | Nov 25, 2009 04:40am | #21

   Orange is on I-10 East right on the Texas--Louisiana border. If you get to Louisiana, you've gone too far. Email me and let's figure out a time. [email protected]Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"

2. 
   jeffs | Nov 25, 2009 08:25am | #23

   if you are an emember of FWW you might want to download Garrett Hack's book on handplanes- it is free to emembers- worth the price of membership alone.

   I have many old stanleys- many bought for little money- once tuned up they work fine. Even better (as some have said) after a thick blade is added but that is a luxury not a necessity.  The key is to adjust the mouth tight, sharpen the blade and make sure the chipbreaker is mating with the blade and adjusted correctly.  You may also want to lap the sole but don't fret about getting it 100% flat across the whole sole, just around (mostly in front) of the blade is most critical.

   Jeff

    

3. 
   | Nov 26, 2009 03:05am | #27

   Jeff,

   Where do I find this free book download you refer to?

   Bob, Tupper Lake, NY

3. 
   RMillard | Nov 26, 2009 04:25pm | #30

   Baddraw,

   While there is absolutely no doubt about the virtues of hand planing, not all hand planes are created equal, and this can and does lead to frustration. As an example, I purchased a factory new Stanley/Bailey jointer plane in 1979, that preforms flawlessly and I still use it today. I followed that purchase with a Jack and a Smooth plane, both factory new Stanley's; the Jack worked perfectly but the smooth never worked well, because the sole was so far out of whack a machinist couldn't fix it. The point is, had that smooth plane been my first plane, I would have never experienced the benefits of using the most accurate and important of tools, the hand plane.  Planes are so essential to woodworking, that I don't know how one could do without them.

   The Lie-Nielsen planes and in particular the Lee Valley planes are worth every penny, but a vintage Stanley/Bailey from Ebay, possibly fitted with an after market blade, is a pretty inexpensive way to get a very useful tool. I bought a $20 No.3 on Ebay for kids to use, which will make impressive shavings in tame wood, and fitted with a thicker iron, and given a back bevel would nearly equal, the 15 times more expensive LN No. 4 1/2, that is my go to plane for final smoothing.  

   Rob Millard
   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

    

1. 
   derekcohen | Nov 26, 2009 06:58pm | #31

   Nicely put Rob.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek