I am getting ready to buy my first hand planes. I would love to buy several of them but my wallet is a little thin. After doing some research I am thinking that going with the low angle bench planes might be the best choice. Instead of buying 3 or 4 planes I can buy 1 and get a few extra blades with different angles. I think I want to buy 1 low angle bench plane and a block plane. I have been looking at the LA smoother and the LA jack from Lie-Nielsen, I am not sure which would be the best choice. I am also looking at the 60 1/2 and the 102 block planes. If anyone could offer any advice on selection it would be appreciated
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Replies
Jack,
I just bought the rabbet block LN, bit more expensive but a whole lot more useful too.
Both LV and LN make fine planes. If pressed, I would give the nod to LN. If you are short on funds, I would advise you to consider the LN 102 block plane ($95), and the LV BU jack (~$200). Here's why:
The 102 is a great value, and a versatile block plane. It does not have the adjustable mouth of the LN 60 1/2 ($150), but I don't miss it much, and I use the plane an awful lot.
The LV BU jack is a bit larger than a smoother, but not much, and has the heft of a #5 jack, a very (some would say the most) useful size. If you but the plane with a low angle blade, you can use it for most non-figured woods, and also for shooting on a board. You can purchase a second iron ground to a steeper angle and easily change irons for use on figured woods. Your total investment (both planes and the extra iron) would be about $350 US, only a little more than a LN 4 1/2 smoother would run you. At a later time you could have Santa bring you a jointer...
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,
Right on the spot!
Especially with the LV BU Jack. Very versatile and fills a lot of gaps with the extra blade(s). Combined with a block plane and you're good to go for quite a while.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, in a previous post, you said you were on the path of the LV BU Jack ... did you make the purchase? Mine is sitting in my LV cart and waiting until i'm back in town and therefor home to receive the shipment to actually place the order.
- Brad
Hi Brad,
I'm placing the order tomorrow morning along with the 38° blade.
The birds eye maple told me to hurry it up last night! :>) By the time it gets here I'll have a brand new ramped shooting board to road test it on.
Pssssst, don't tell anyone but I borrowed Dereks design.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Pssssst, don't tell anyone but I borrowed Dereks design.
No worries Bob .... I was inspired by the design of Michael Connor, which was in use at the time by Terry Gordon (of HNT Gordon planes).
Oh, one more thing ... don't buy a 38 degree blade for the LA Jack - get another 25 degree and add the desired secondary bevel. You will find it much easier to camber a 25 degree bevel than a 38 degree one (assuming that this is a blade for smoothing and that you will want to add a small camber to it).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 3/6/2008 10:18 pm ET by derekcohen
Derek,
Thanks, I appreciate that. Now all I have to do is learn how to apply a secondary bevel to the BU blade. I'll do a search in here as I recall you describing the process a while back.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/9/2008 12:45 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob
Rest assured, and I'm not taking anything away from Derek here, but do rest assured that any of the shooting boards, clamps, jigs, etc.... that we are using with our hand tools today were thought of more than 200 years ago.
The good stuff that works will pass down through the centuries. If we don't manage to blow the planet up, some guy is going to be shooting miters with a Marcou miter plane in about 500 years. Perhaps he'll be showing off your new shooting board, by then an ancient antique, to boot!! It'll probably be worth about $50K on Ebay-Mars by then. Make sure you put a nice coat of wax on it!!
ha ha ha
Jeff
BTW Large gloat here...... my son's team won the game last night, 4 to 1. They're now down to the Elite 8 in Illinois State Hockey. Here's keeping my fingers crossed.
Edited 3/6/2008 10:59 pm ET by JeffHeath
Also, consider Clifton bench planes. I have both Clifton and LN bench planes and prefer the Cliftons. My LN 5 1/2 gives me blisters and tends to develop rust easily. The Cliftons feel great and remain rust free despite being stored the same.On the other hand, my LN low angle adjustable mouth block plane is the best!Best regards,
Paul
Never owned a Clifton, though I've heard good things about them.I like the feel and heft of the LN in my hand- it's one reason I prefer them to LV- probably because I learned and became accustomed to my old Baileys... rust has not been much of a problem for me with any plane, but I run a dehumdifier in my basement shop.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Hi Glaucon,The Cliftons have a similar heft to the LN and come in a little less expensive.I also don't have any problems with rust on my old Stanleys. Only the LN 5 1/2. Just can't seem to get on with that plane. I'll stick with Cliftons in the future, only because they're working well for me.Best regards,
Paul
In the US, Cliftons used to be less expensive I believe. I have a Clifton #3 that is my favorite smoother and I wish I bought a few more Cliftons at that time. The blade is superb on the domestic wood I work.
T.Z.
I bought a Clifton 3, 4 and 7 at one time. I gave away the 3 as a gift. Good bench planes.
T.Z.-Clifton #7 for $299 from Woodworkers Supply in their sale email today. enjoy, Paddy
Thanks for the head's up. Going to take a look at it, although I have a LN low angle jointer and a Bailey #7.
Unfortuantely, I do have sufficient expendable cash at the moment to make the purchase!
T.Z.
Speaking from the perspective of a new hand plane user, I second the advice from Glaucon. Start with good planes that actually work right out of the box. Later you can catch the Stanley/Bailey disease in which you take pride in being able to make a tool that won't work right out of the box, darn well work, anyway! (I've caught it, myself, by the way).
Mike D
If funds are a problem, you could also buy a used BD plane (Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls, Union, etc.) from one of the tool dealers that rehabs them, & get several spare blades to backbevel at different degrees for tougher woods. Then add a vintage LA block, & it may be less than $100.00. Just another way to skin the cat...don
I have both the LN BU Smoother and Jack. I prefer to use the Smoother (only as a smoother) for its ergonomics, but the Jack is more versatile and able to do extremely fine work when I need it to. The Jack feels a little awkward to me and took some getting use to, the tote is nearly all the way to the back of the plane. It just seems like the Jack wants to be wider and maybe an inch or so longer to make it more balanced (however, see my side note below). That said, if I had to choose one over the other, go with the Jack, it can do more.
In terms of block planes, I have the LN 60 1/2 and their Rabbit block plane (which I bought a couple of years after the 60 1/2). I greatly prefer to use the rabbit for any task that calls for a block plane. I find the plane fits my hand better, it can do everything the 60 1/2 does, and can function as a wide shoulder plane when I need it to (which is quite often).
As a side note, my 20 year old son is finally letting me teach him some woodworking and out of all of my planes (I have over 20 of them) he found the LN BU Jack to be the easiest for him to learn to use effectively. I tried to start him out four squaring with several different well tuned bevel down bench planes, he struggled with all of them. When I finally gave him the LN BU Jack he took to it immediately and said it was the only plane he felt he was in control of, go figure.
If $$$ is low like my wallet, I would say looking buying some older Stanleys at eBays Collectable> Tools You want to try and get the ones that have Patent dates in front of the rear handles, they are pretty much the best years for users.. You can also look into an after market blade.. For less than $200 I think you can get a #4, #5 and #7 the #5 I would make my first..
http://www.rexmill.com Visit my site I try to have the best info for handle planes..
Before you buy any be aware you need sharpening tools, so read up on Scary Sharp at my site or google..
I agree with Marcou, except: I would go with the LeeValley low angle block plane. You can add a front knob and either a tote or rear ball knob to it, for about $35. Adding the front knob and a tote converts it into a smoother of about a number 3 size. They also have chamfer guide that replaces the adjustable toe for about $25. These add on accessories make the Lee Valley low angle block a bit more versatile, and to me a better choice when you only have a few planes.
Hi Jack
My advice on block planes is try before you buy.
There are a number of options on the market - two adjustable LA blocks each from LN and LV amongst others.
Having tried almost all block planes one could imagine, I have no doubt in saying that the Veritas (LV) LA block plane is the best designed with an adjustable mouth that is available new. But that does not mean that it is right for you. I do have this particular plane (it was a gift), but the one that feels most comfortable for my hand is the LN, which is the one I purchased. The LN is not as easy to adjust as the Veritas ... but the LN fits my hand better as a one-handed block plane. It is wider than the LN. Others may reverse this choice on the same grounds. It is that personal.
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Of course, the advantage of the Veritas, if you go with it, is that you get a plane that can also be used as a BU #3. This is how I use mine. It is fantastic! However, at the end of the day you want a block plane ....
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If you are not going to be shooting end grain with the block plane (and both the above can do so well - the Veritas is my choice here as it is heavier ... 800 vs 600 gms), then my choice would move to either the Veritas Apron Plane or the LN #102 or #103. These small block planes are simply wonderful to use. They are very comfortable and are like an extension of one's hand. I bought the LN #103 years ago, before the Veritas was around, so the choice was easier at that time. The #103 is a standard angle. For this type of plane I think it is the right choice since it is used for trimming. It is better on face grain thamn a low angle plane and still cuts end grain extremely cleanly.
Some of the block planes I have at home right now as I prepare a monster review ... :)
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Regards from Perth
Derek
It doesn't need to hurt your wallet. Go to an antique mall and buy an old stanley #4 or 5. Learn to fix it up, sharpen , and use it, then you will have a better idea of where to go next.
Tom
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