I’m looking at the feasibility of developing a new niche of business – making cabinets with only “green” materials (environmentally responsible, from certified sustainable sources). One of the major difficulties is sheet goods. Columbia makes FSC-certified plywood panels, with aspen core plies and a non-formaldehyde adhesive. Anyone out there with practical experience using this material?
David Ring
Replies
Stay away from Al Gore and his thieving minions. Green is good but don't be suckered into paying for green "credits". Bear in mind that you are probably a better judge of whats green than the people in the limelight. You have been succesful in business inspite of those who suckle off the public teat and neither know nor produce anything. Do your homework and you will be able to justify your materials and methods.
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You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
Jack London
Hi Don,Like yourself I've been blessed/cursed with a healthy dose of cynicism. Above all I'm a stark raving realist. I look around me and see that "green" is an idea whose time has come, that no one as yet is marketing environmentally responsible woodwork in Israel, that I could develop this niche and become "the man to see" for green cabinetry. And it goes with the grain of how I feel about forest sustainability etc. But as a realist I know that I need a stamp of approval. I'm a damn good architect but I can't make a living at it without a diploma that says I am. So if I want to develop this market niche, I need the papers (in this case FSC-certified materials) that say I'm green and kosher too.So actually I'm already prepared to pay extra for the kosher certificate. It's my cold calculating business judgement that my clients will eventually more than repay me for it.regards,David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
David,
I find it a little humourous that you're talking to Mr Green about green products.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Yeah, I thought of that too. It's HIM who should open THE GREEN WORKSHOP!David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Dear David,
Personally, I think that the whole "Green" thing is about the dollars. Oil baron Al Gore is the high priest of the movement and most dollars will flow in that direction. I have seen the "Green" building products and like most "alternatives" are compromises at best. The Green products can not compete on an even playing field with the "non green" materials. That being said I do have clients that want to be "Green" and are willing to pay for it. If that makes them happy, then I am happy to provide it.
From a practical standpoint, some of the materials are easier to deal with such as cotton insulation and formaldehyde free glues in the plywood, but the FSC lumber that we are seeing is not that good and the PT has the same chemical content as the non FSC, so the extra cost is going into someone's pocket. Unfortunately it is not mine! I have abandoned PT altogether for my "Green" customers and am now offering unseasoned white oak. It is good for them and good for me.
I agree with you that this is all marketing. I will also get on board, as I am about putting food on the table, my personal beliefs aside. When this all goes away and the next fad shows up, if there are dollars to be made, count me in.
Best,
John
Hello David ,
Besides no formaldehyde sheet goods and Green finishes how much further can you go ? Green lumber harvesting ? Green hardware plants ?
No animals or trees were used to build your cabinets mam !
Sell them on the friendly Green finish and FMDE free products
Heck I was just coming out with an Olympic line of Cabinets
dusty
I was talking with my son the other day and trying to explain vegetarianism to him and it dawned on me that it has been scientifically proven that plants have feelings too!
Now how would someone with no heart for eating animals or animal products find the heart to eat a living plant who's only crime it has is the inability to defend itself or run away!
Soon enough we will find ourselves back to living in caves, eating roasted meat and wearing bear skins for clothing!
Now that's what I call green living!
Chaim
Heck I was just coming out with an Olympic line of Cabinets
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lee
Where you going with something water proof in the Phelps line?
And while you are at it I want to see what you have cooked up for the Beach Vollyball (womens)
Doug M
Doug,
That women's beach volleyball was something else, huh? I couldn't tell if the girls were cold or just happy to see me :--)
Lee
A branding iron that says, "No polar bears were killed in the construction of this furniture"?
On the serious side, is using solely reclaimed lumber at all feasible?
Ralph,
What they really want is a stamp that says no man, animal or growing thing was at all harmed or even a little bit bothered by the gentle souls who tiptoed into the forest and found this tree and planted another in its place before they carefully pulled it out and made my table. Don't you think we could give that to them?David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Dear David,
You may be on the "left" coast, but these guys are in CT and they know their stuff plus they know enough to know when the don't know...........ya know?
http://www.centerforgreenbuilding.com/
Tell them I said to call. Ask for Erin or Jay.
John Martinsky
I know they own our government and both candidates have pledged their fealty but it still comes as a bit of a shock to find out it's now considered our "left coast".
No offense meant to you personally David.
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You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
Thanks to all for the lively discussion, but just to get back to the point...has anyone actually used or even seen Columbia's "green" plywood?
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
OH, man, this was like a punch line! Really all an interesting little foray and I wish I could tell you but I can't. However, I am now curious to what answer you will get. Does anyone out there know?Jeff from Texas
David, this post was meant for you, I selected Ring in the dropdown box but it showed up as slo when it posted.
I think Jeff Heath and Sarge looked into Colombias plywood a few months ago, I looked back through the threads and did not see anything that would completely answer your request but they both are pretty thorough when they look into something, you might drop them a note and ask about their research. I think they were primarily looking at the formaldehyde aspect but you never know what they dug up.
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You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
Edited 9/7/2008 1:46 am by dgreen
I routinely use Columbia's Canadian made plywood which uses formaldehyde-free glue. I've never seen it referred to as "green" specifically. Here's what they say about the process:
"Columbia has converted all of its hardwood plywood and particleboard facilities to a proprietary formaldehyde-free manufacturing system called PureBond¯. Cost-competitive with the similar urea formaldehyde (UF)-made hardwood plywood, Columbia's PureBond formula is derived naturally, then enhanced with a proprietary resin, giving it particularly strong bonding and water-resistance qualities. And better yet it enables Columbia to completely eliminate formaldehyde from its standard veneer-core decorative panel production.
With a growing focus from the architectural community on indoor air quality, Columbia's formaldehyde-free decorative panels are also compliant with the U.S. Green Building Council's Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) standards, earning one point for LEED's EQ Credit 4.4 for Low-Emitting Materials: Composite Wood. And PureBond panels also eliminate formaldehyde from both press and product emissions, which is good news for everyone, including our employees."
Their website is at http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com
Jim
Jim,I am in contact already with Columbia's export director, which is why I was curious if anyone of you out there had actually used this stuff. The non-formaldehyde adhesive is only part of the picture. They make an FSC-certified (Forest Stewardship Council) plywood which uses aspen plies coming from sources that are certified as sustainable by an independent body, probably Smartwood. It's the certificate that I'm after. thanks,
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Columbia gives an account of some of this on their website under "Home / Products and Services: Hardwood Plywood / Certified wood" including the phone number of the Smartwood group certification manager in Portland OR at 1-800-547-4261
Jim
If David is not in the US, he won't be able to use the 800 telephone number - the exchange for Portland OR is 503. The other "green" product that is being used instead of plywood is something called "wheatboard". You may want to google that for your clients who are even more greener than thou...
You should go and see Shai Agassi, maybe you can hook up with his Better Place company as a supplier.
Please tell me more about who he is and what he's doing.David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shai_AgassiAgassi is building in Israel an electric vehicle infrastructure featuring thousands of battery recharge and replacement stations (like a gas station but instead of filling up you swap out your battery).
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