My brother tried to glue a broken forearm on his favorite shotgun. He used Gorilla Glue and did not use any pressure. The glue looks lumpy along the glue line. The break is at a very thin part of the forearm and, to be successfully reglued, it would take complete removal of the glue without sanding or scraping. Can it be done? Is there a product that will break down the glue?
Cool
Edited 11/6/2008 7:42 pm ET by coolbreeze
Replies
Hey Coolbreeze, I feel sorry for ya, Gorilla Glue is a really terrible product and not very strong to boot, But it is polyurethane based, so whatever will break that down will probably break down the glue, you might try soaking it in acetone, or brush cleaner, I've soaked things in brush cleaner and been really surprised at the results.
Blake, I agree with you on the Gorilla being a bad product. I tried using it and did not like it at all. The stuff foams out of the joint and is a mess. Also, I could not keep it from setting up in the bottle. That is in addition to the fact that it simply does not make a sstrong joint ss ole "yellow".
I will try acetone and other solvents If I do not get a tried and proven suggestion.
Thanks for the reply.
Cool
http://www.thearmadillotrap.com
Hey Coolbreeze,I just read an article on the net that suggested microwaving the piece may make the glue loosen up... might be a bad idea, but if you could detach the stock and fit it in a microwave, you could give it a shot
Cool,
No to get off the subject but, do you have any good hardwood dealers up there? I am down in Gulfport.
Thanks,
Greg
We are not blessed in the South with such. The best I have used is Acadian Hardwood in Ponchatoula, LA. Mapleman may have other suggestions.
http://www.acadianhardwoods.com/
Thanks,
Mapleman told me about them, thought there might be something of value up north of Gulfport. Moved from Texas and there were a bunch there.
Greg
If you undo the gorilla glue, you have to get EVERY bit of the gg off before you can reglue with another glue. You have a big job in front of you.
Gorilla Glue is a really terrible product and not very strong to boot..
I beg to differ on that opinion. I have my opinion of it and with proper use works well.
I have used it many times making laminations of all kinds. Mostly used on laminated hickory and ash archery bows that I make on occasion. All in the 50 lb. pull range. One 20 lb. pull for a neighbor's child. Non-Professional bows but they 'shoot true enough' for most of us common folks..
They were are all made with a 'slight' recurve and are one-piece so they cannot be 'taken down'.
Granted, It is more than a 'bit' messy to work with and leaves a brownish glue line.
I have had one bow break. I was in the process of making it. The 'wood' gave up on my final building stages. Not the glue. The bow broke on what I do before I 'give away' my bows. I have a holder with pins that holds/clamps the bow at the outside of the grip. I put 200 lb total 'lifting' irons on the 'string' and raise the fixture to the 'full draw' of the bow at 50 lb' attached to the string. Different with the bows I make.
I figure wood is wood! I let it sit a week or two that way. Maybe more like when I get time to go back and check to see how the bow 'recovers' after taking the static weight off the string. Some do recover, some do not.. I trash those that 'do not'.
As I said above, one broke during the very un-scientific test I use. It broke 'as in the wood broke'. Not the glue joint! To much compression for the lamination at the 'median plane of the bow'? To me that is the place just outside of where where I put the pins for mounting the bow.
I have left Gorilla glued laminations out in the rain/sun/moon or whatever.. None of the bows broke or at least not useable.. Wood cracks and does strange things. I still had a good glue joint?
What did I do worng?
Just me.. You are entitled to your opinion. No hate here. Just my thoughts on the words typed.
If you care.. Find
On the Mechanics of the Bow and ArrowB.W. KooiGroningen, The Netherlands1983
I think his/her Thesis.
I have no idea. I just read stuff from folks alot smarter than I!
Well I can have my own opinions, its messy and foams out of joints, that is all I need to know. But if you want to argue about it, take a look at this article, Gorilla Glue ranks as the weakest glue, and it is right here from FW.http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
Dear Will,
Someone once told me that a person with an experience is never at the mercy of the person with a theory. Your experience is better than I ever had so I will not try to dissuade you from a process that obviously works for you. However, I do have a question, now that Titebond 3 is available, do you see any advantage to using GG? I abandoned GG a good ten years ago or better, in favor of PL Premium, another polyurethane product. Not really apples to oranges, but for exterior joints that will be subjected to high stress and weather, it definitely will hold on. Not the easiest product to work with, I now save it for "worst case scenarios" of poorly fitting joints that need filling. For general exterior use, I use Titebond 3.Best,John
John,"now that Titebond 3 is available, do you see any advantage to using GG? "You really ARE comparing apples to oranges. Gorilla Glue is not comparable to either Titebond 3 or to PL Premium. The latter 2 can both fill gaps. Titebond is somewhat gap-filling, although best practice with it is to prepare the joint to be as tight-fitting as possible.In "fine" wood working, one assumes that one is working with properly-prepared joints, as in absolutely accurately jointed surfaces and mating pieces. Gorilla glue expands and foams in a loose-fitting joint but that foam is not gap-filling at all, except in the sense that it occupies space. But it has no strength. Such a joint will fail rather easily. The joint must be tight and it must be clamped until the glue has achieved near-maximum strength, at least 24 hours.Both GG and Titebond 3 can give hairline joints. I may be wrong, but I don't think PL Premium, a "construction" glue, would be the choice to achieve an almost invisible glue line as the other 2 can do.Rich
All I can say is there was NO Titebond 3 available when I made my last bow. Maybe about 4 years ago? Last bow I made was for my Son that went to Colorado to hunt? He stayed there with his wife. have not heard from him since?
Damn children are sure strange. I can live with that cus' I'm more than a 'bit' strange!
Sorry, I just got a 'bit' annoyed that a poster was so upset at me? So I did not respond. I just made a comment as he did! His comment was OK by be.. I just had to respond that it has always worked in the past for my bows. Those bows take ALOT of different stresses and then some. Why I posted the link I gave.
I used Gorilla glue because it is 'sort of' water proof. And holds laminations together that I made. NEVER had a glue failure. Wood broke first. Any bow I have made broke while making it. I have never had somebody say it broke after I made it. At the glue joint that is. Some guys can break a 50 lb pull bow! NOT ME.. I can pull one about 10 times and I give up for the day!
EDIT: I forgot about you statement.. I now save it for "worst case scenarios" of poorly fitting joints that need filling.
All I can say all my laminations are as about perfect flatness as I can make them. Maybe good or bad. Only I have judged them.. Some expert may say crap and I'll try to do better!
Edited 11/10/2008 1:16 pm by WillGeorge
PL Premium.. Never used it.. I 'think' that is a construction grade Poly glue for holding loads?
I have no idea what construction code AFGl-01 says. I may look it up.
I just responded it works for what I make.. I KNOW there are many things better to use. But not in my price class. I am broke after buying the wood!
Gorilla Glue requires high clamping pressure for a number of hours to get a strong joint. From your description, I would be leery of the joint.
Howie,
My brother knows nothing about woodworking. I don't think he even owns a clamp. Now he needs my help. If I can get the dried Gorilla glue off, I can reglue and clamp it. This time, I will be using Titebond III and some strategic clamping. First, I have to get the Gorilla off.
Cool
According to the Gorilla Glue website, there is no solvent for hardened Gorilla Glue. Heat is also unlikely to be of much help. GG claims it meets ANSI standards for Type I waterproof adhesives. If so, it means it survives multiple long term immersions in boiling water with periods of drying out and cooling.The only way to remove it is to sand or scrape it off. Any you must get it all off or other adhesives (except slow set, two part epoxy) will not adhere either. The epoxy may be your best option.Howie.........
>First, I have to get the Gorilla off.Could be dangerous getting a Gorilla off. I would hire a professional. : )
Edited 11/8/2008 1:17 am by roc
I've never tried it but have heard "Goof Off" may soften Gorilla glue.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Maybe soak it in denatured alcohol or acetone? I'm no expert, but I've used denatured alcohol to clean out aerosol spray foam insulation that remains in the spray tube.
Either one would be friendly to the stock's finish, I think.
Again, I'm no expert. Try this on a dab of dried adhesive (that's not on the stock) first, followed by gently wiping a small (inconspicuous?) area of the stock to determine if the solvent will affect the finish.
You might consult a furniture stripping place; they would probably be knowledgeable about this. Worst case, their process would remove the adhesive (and finish) and you'd have to refinish after the reglue, but the end result would probably look better.
kreuzie
I kow a furniture repair place nearby. Maybe they can help. Thanks
Edited 11/6/2008 11:03 pm ET by coolbreeze
Gorilla glue is an excellent product. But like anything else it MUST be used correctly. The surfaces must be freshly jointed. It is absolutely necessary that the surface of the joint have adequate moisture content (as in dampening the joint just before gluing.) The joint MUST be tightly clamped for 24 hours. The clamping pressure must be high and no part of the joint can be allowed to expand by the foaming action of the glue.
While still foaming at the glue line, the glue can be wiped away with acetone to reveal absolutely clean wood without a bit of stain.
I have glued lignum vitae to other oily tropical woods (very hard to do with other glues except epoxy) as the soles of wooden hand planes with absolutely no failures under daily use for years. Gorilla Glue lines are near-invisible.
Use materials correctly and things work!
Rich
>Gorilla glue is an excellent product. But like anything else it MUST be used correctly.Rich14,
Thank you for saying that ! I hate to be the hated bringer of unwanted facts too often. I was just chomping at the bit over here.TO THE NAY SAYERS:All the various glues have their optimal uses. Gorilla must have a close fit up to be strong. Foam is a god send (easy to scrape or cut off). With experience you learn how much to put on and wind up with quarter inch foam beads or less and is easy to deal with. I squirt it on then spread it thin with a section of hacksaw blade clamped in a vise grip to control the layer thickness. Tooth side on some applications but often just the straight side on very hard wood that is not porous. A very thin coat is all it takes because it has long open time.My prize purple heart cabinet makers bench is put together at all the edge joints with Gorilla and it worked great, is plenty strong, excess easy to clean up even in the dog holes. I used System Three epoxy in the critical dovetails just to be damned sure and because it fills any flaws and gaps inside the joints. My Gorilla does not set up in the bottle but I follow the manufactures recommendation and am careful to keep moisture/atmosphere out of the contents.Read the directions, Read the tests, Conduct your own tests as I have with proper fit up. Then tell me it is not good. I did not say it is the strongest. It is close though.
Edited 11/8/2008 2:08 am by roc
According to Gorilla Glue's website cured glue can be removed with "a chisel, scraper or sandpaper". There is nothing about using chemicals or solvents. You might be out of luck.
My suggestion would be to use acetone but I still wouldn't hold my breath. It sounds like any method suggested (including mine) will mean the forearm will still need to be refinished.
Unless there is extensive checkering, have you considered that it might be faster to just find a suitable piece of walnut and make a new forearm?
Ron
I really like this product for silicone caulk removal.
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/5823455?ref=gbase
Liftoff Silicone Caulk Foam Remover.
Now it says water based, but has acetone is in some kind of emulsion.
They say that it works on polyurethane adhesives which Gorilla is.
I have never used it for that purpose.
But I did suggest it to some one that had foam out on finished table and they told me that it worked with damaging the finish.
I suspect that it would take some time to get it to work down enough to release the piece.
Probably try it to remove the excess. Then open up the seam with a utility knife and apply some more. And keep working at it like that.
If the joint is as bad as you describe, then it's probably a wide joint filled with foamed glue, and not very strong. Have you tried to break the joint open by rapping with a mallet?
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks to all who replied. I am going to try a couple "solvents" I've nothing to lose. It does appear, however, that the decision my brother made when he put on the GG is one he will regret.
" . . . is one he will regret"That's often the case when people seek advice after the fact. But, most have done that at least once in our lives. ;-)Can he buy a replacement from the manufacturer?
That shotgun is long out of production. I will suggest he start trying to find one somewhere.
Coolbreeze
Ralph and cool,
Here's a possibility for replacement parts:
http://www.e-gunparts.com/dept.asp
Numrich arms, been around forever.
Ray
Ray,
I went to the site and found Remington 870 and got the part number. I will call tomorrow about availibility. Thanks a ton!!
Coolbreeze
http://www.thearmadillotrap.com
Dear Cool,
Yup, I learned the hard way too. Terrible stuff, but great marketing... sort of like our new President elect? Well, never mind......................
What I have done to "repair" Gorilla Glue joints is to scrape out as much of the "glue" as possible, hopefully exposing some fresh material. Depending on the break that could mean a wire brush or just a razor. Once prepared I use "PL Premium": http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products/detail.asp?PLProductID=14 , not the thin stuff, but the construction adhesive that comes in a caulk type tube. It is a polyurethane glue but is excellent for bridging gaps and its strength almost defies belief. Wet both sides of the joint with water as poly reacts with water. It seems to chase moisture and will ram its way into material in the process. You'll see what I mean as soon as you get it on your hands. So:
1) Clean joint as well as possible, don't be afraid to gouge the joint as PL is and excellent filler.
2) Apply water to both sides of the now clean joint.
3) Apply a 1/16" or better coating of PL Premium on one side of the joint.
4) Clamp and set aside for 24-48 hrs. Clamp pressure doesn't have to be incredible. Just enough to keep the joint together.
As a disclaimer, I have never repaired a shotgun and don't pretend to understand the stresses that will be applied to this joint. I would suggest that you glue up some scrap to test the properties of the adhesive and see if you think that it is appropriate.
Suggestions:
1) Clean up: Forget it. It doesn't happen. Any squeeze out should be allowed to harden and then chiseled away.
2) Clean up: Don't get it on anything that you don't want it on forever.
3) Clean up: Your hands will be black for a week. That's just how it is.
Best,
John
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