Hi All,
I’ve been very happily using my new Ridgid benchtop table saw for a few months now. For those of you who are wondering — thr Ridgid saw is smooth, powerful, has a convenient guard/splitter assembly, and it has a phenomenal fence.
Believe it or not, even the stock blade was pretty good. But now I’m looking to replace it with an upgrade. I’m interested in hearing people’s opinions about table saw upgrades.
Whet do you have to say about the following options:
=> Freud Glue-Line Rip Blades (~ $70)
=> Forrest Woodworker II Blades (~ $105)
=> Ridgid T3 Titanium-Coated Finish Blades (~ $65)
Does anyone successfully use a rip blade for small crosscuts, or do you think it is always necessary to switch out blades for different cutting? Or are there combination blades that really do a good job of both?
I know a lot of people prefer the thin-kerf, but I’d rather have the full kerf because I actually use my splitter!
Edited 7/27/2005 8:04 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Replies
Matthew, I'm a diehard fan of Forrest blades. I have more than one, to make sure there is always a sharp blade to change to. I use it to rip, and then will crosscut, and the finish is always top notch. I tried a rip blade once, and still liked the Woodworker II the best. Lately I've been working a lot of hard maple, and have had no problem at all.
There may be better blades, for less money, but I'm not spending the time to look.
Have a great day
I'll second what creekwood said. I have the WWII and it cross cuts well as rips. I also have the WWI on the RAS. I also purchased the WWII 71/4 for my PC circular saw that I use to cut down plywood to size. Unbelievable finish. You can't go wrong with Forrest. I get mine from Coastal tool. They are good to work with and ship fast and good prices. They list the WWII at $95.00. If you find it cheaper let me know.
http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/ab/forrest/forrest.htm?L+coastest+xszr9096ff76d076+1122478305
Mine are thin kerf, but I do use my splitter (microjig).
Edited 7/27/2005 8:52 am ET by bones
bones,
I like Coastal Tool, and go there for many things. Yes, they have good prices, nice selection, and they have always been very helpful when I have questions about machines or accessories.Coastal Tool's price, with 1-day shipping, is $102.50.
Amazon's price, with 3-day shipping is $104.Of course, I may go there to buy it in person, since I can always find two or three other things I "need"!
Edited 7/27/2005 9:19 am ET by Matthew Schenker
I will go against the grain - I like the Freud blades. I have their combo, rip and dado blades. I am real happy with the blades and their customer service. I got the combo and rip blades on a sale for $125 for both - what I would have paid for one if it had been a Forrest. I have used a Forrest blade at a friends and cannot really tell a differance in the cut. The Forrest MAY last longer between sharpenings, but I am not sure of that.
I think that with the saw you have, any premium blade will give you good service. I would look more at price at this point. I have also heard that the blades by Infinity have been getting some good reviews as well. They will probably be my next blade - just to see if nothing else. I like and use their router bits (and their products are American Made)
Just as a point of clarification, you wrote about Infinity:"and their products are American Made".You might want to call them and verify that.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
At least they make a point of that on their site.
Thanks Charles for the monitoring you do and pass on to the bosses that a number of us like your products and service. My next purchase is a coated glue line rip from Freud1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Thanks. I'll definitley pass the word.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Rick503, I think I was a little harsh about my Freud blades in my post. I still use my Freud blades for various tasks. But I really love my WW11.
I do have the coated Freud 30T Glueline ripblade, and the 50T combo. And for ripping solid stock, I don't think I'd be exaggerating to say that the quality rip the GLR delivers is twice what you get with the 50T combo.
It is a specialty ripping blade though, and not recommened for ripping hardwoods thicker than 1in. I have ripped thicker than 1in without burning, just had to slow the feed rate.
Cheers. Walker1
The Forrest WWII 40T is the best of all the blades I've used. The Freud combos and better DeWalts are very good too, but none compare in performance to the WWII in my experience.
If you really want to use only one blade for most cuts, you might try the 30T WWII....I think Grizzly has it, but the 40T should make cleaner cuts.
Edited 8/7/2005 9:54 pm ET by knot scott
I was at Wood Craft and looked at the end of a 2" piece of Babinga which looked as though it was polished. Discussing this with one of the Salesmen he showed me the 12" Tenryu blade on their SCM which had done the cutting. The next blade is buy will be the Tenryu even though it is a bit costly. About $119 for the 10" and a little less for the 12" (?).
Roger
The next blade is buy will be the Tenryu even though it is a bit costly. Herg, I wasnt going to enter into this fray but I have to agree about Tenryu-awesome. Forrest is good too........ aloha, mike
I get great results with my 80T Systematic alternate tooth bevel blade. I feel a bit guilty but I don't usually bother changing to the factory blade even when doing rough work like cutting up knotty 2x4s. Sharpened once, on a well tuned saw the cuts are amazingly smooth, both rip and cross. I get little or no tearout on plywood, but that might be more credit to the zero clearance insert than the blade. I don't remember the exact price but I think it was a little more than the Forrest WWII prices in this thread.
I plan to get a Forrest WWII for when the Systematic is out being sharpened, considering all the die hard Forrest fans out there.
I have the 30T glueline rip, the LU83 50T Combo,80T crosscut, and the 60T TCG. All freud blades, and I recently bought the WW11 after struggling, trying to decide if it could be worth the money.The first thing I did was test it against every blade I have,and I found out quickly, that the reviews about the WW11 were true. It out performed every one of my blades, on every kind of cut, and not just by a little bit.
The only thing that ticks me off is seeing all those freud blades sitting there doing nothing.
If you like running a full kerf blade on a bench model saw, you need the sharpest blade you can get, and in my opinion that's the WW11.
Good Luck. Walker1
Hi Matthew, wow I almost missed my chance to champion Freud blades :>)
As you may remember, we had a blade shoot-out at the Northwest Knots Fest, and although (suspiciously) no one showed up with a FWWII blade, I had my Freud LU84 (50-tooth combo) at the ready, and I'll tell you, it knocked their socks off! People were passing the cut wood around, oooooo'ing and ahhhhhh'ing.
As to the glue-line rip blade, I'll suggest you try the 24-tooth Freud Diablo rip blade and see if you even need the GLR. It's not expensive, pick it up at Home Depot, and see what you think. "Does anyone successfully use a rip blade for small crosscuts...?" Yes. Depends on how sweet you need the cut to be, but I often don't change out. I wouldn't use it to cut thin plywood with though.
The other Freud blade I use, but only for special tasks, is their Ultimate Cut-Off blade. It provides a mirror-smooth finish and is great for end-grain that is going to show. The blade polishes the wood and that really helps the end grain not only look great, but also be less overly-absorptive when it is stained.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 7/27/2005 1:19 pm ET by forestgirl
Edited 7/27/2005 1:24 pm ET by forestgirl
I really love my Freud 80 tool "laminate" blade (triple chip). They say it's fine for cross cutting and "not recommended" for ripping but I use it for everything including tuffak, thin plywood, and oak (Cross and rip). It is a wonderful blade. You hardly feel any resistance as you push the stock through (Also it's thin kerf).
And when I have lots and lots of ripping to do, I switch to my 54 tool Freud - which, when sharp, is quite a nice blade...
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
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Mark, isn't that going to get kinda expensive down the road? (using an 80-tooth TCG blade for ripping) I can see using it for thin plywood but ripping oak is going to wear it out PDQ, no?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Good Question, As I said, I switch to another blade for "bulk" ripping. Yes I suppose it will be hard on the blade but it is a carbide tipped and carbide is tough stuff...Non-the-less a $25 sharpening every 2 years or so is worth it for the nice cut...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Visit Dust Maker
Mark,You are not alone in using an 80T to do occasional ripping. The drawback of this is that the blade has small gullets and cannot handle the large chips produced when ripping. This results in slow feed and extra heat but as long as the heat is not excessive blade life will probably not be diminished.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Charles,
"from the horses mouth" - can't beat your input.Great to know. Most of the ripping I do with the 80T is short stuff or one-off pieces. So I think I'll be safe.As I said, when I have serious ripping, I switch to the 54? tooth multi-purpose full kerf blade - I don't own a "pure ripping" blade (perhaps I should).Thanks,
MarkBTW I really love that 80t thin kerf laminate blade - quiet, smooth, small chips, (and sharp as a knife)...
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Visit Dust Maker
Charles, thank you! That is the most lucid explanation I've seen on why a rip blade is the way it is.
It would help to raise that 80T blade a bit higher than usual when ripping, yes?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Jamie,Raising the blade in this instance would effectively increase the angle of attack (mimicking some of the effect of a higher hook angle) and shorten the length of the chip produced. The caveat is that as the blade height above the material is increased the safety concerns increase propotionately.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
There was quite a bit of discussion in this thread: 23412.1
I think it was very revealing and informative.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
I was thinking raising the blade would provide better chip ejection too. Yes?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,There is a truth to that but centripetal force should pull the chip out just after the tooth leaves the wood anyway. The smaller size of the chip is more important so it doesn't load up. Once the gullet is loaded the tooth behind will stop cutting.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
CHARLES,
Thanks for joining the discussion and offering some advice about cutting. I saw the Freud lineup at the AWFS show last week and I like a lot of it, especially the router bits.I like all the details that have been covered in this discussion.My original question about which rip blades are good, and whether it's OK to use a rip blade for cross-cutting as well. Are the Freud Glue-Line Rip Blades a good choice here?
Matthew,The best crosscuts are with a blade that is ATB grind. The most efficient rip blades are either flat or triple chip (although there are a few that are ATB). You can crosscut with these grinds but they are not as good at shearing cross grain fibers as the ATB so the edge will not be as crisp. Tooth quantity is also a factor. A crosscut blade for 3/4" stock should have 60-80T. More teeth than this can cause burning and less can result in worse finish. So a 40T Glue Line Rip blade with triple chip grind (like the LM74 Series) will be just below the correct amount of teeth with a slightly less than optimal grind. It all comes down to what you feel is acceptable. The GLR blade won't blow out the wood but it will not make a crosscut that is "finish" quality. If you really want to use one blade I would recommend either the combination style (like the LU84 series) or a general purpose (like the F410). These are tradeoffs that are good at ripping and crosscutting but not as efficient at either as dedicated blades.
Charles M
Freud America, Inc.
Charles,
Thanks for your reply! I'll admit it -- I'm trying to get good cuts on both ripping and crosscutting without having to change blades. OK, that means I'm lazy! But hey, I'm sure I'm not the only one...I think I'll give the Glue Line Rip (GLR) blade a try, since it would do best with ripping, and 90% of what I do on a table saw is ripping. I should have mentioned this before, but when I do crosscuts, it's always a miter cut, which is not truly a crosscut. I do all my true crosscuts without a table saw. So in my case, the GLR blade may work just fine.Thank you again for your help.Keep up the good work at Freud.
Edited 8/1/2005 11:56 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Mark,
What tablesaw do you run?
Walker1
A vintage craftsman ~ 30+ years old...M.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Visit Dust Maker
I have both the glue line rip and the WWII for my PC benchtop TS. The WWII thin kerf with a stabilizer is the way to go. You only need to change blades when you plan on running garbage through your saw. The glue line rip takes a 1/8" kerf and is pretty hard on a benchtop saw.
I wouldn't go with a dedicated rip blade. I'm sure Freud makes some good combo blades. Just make sure you get a thin kerf job.
matt
Matt, my cousin Miles has Freud blades, I've got Systimatic.
Both are quality blades, I'd trade even with Miles and he with me.
I've seen the WW2s at shows, they're impressive.
Ridge Carbide has their adherents here also.
That said, next time I buy a blade it's likely to be Freud, as Charles, the Freud rep, makes frequent appearances here and that sort of customer commitment by an manufacturer impresses me.
Remember: If it ain't sharp, it won't cut. All good blades need a good sharpening--even if new, they will cut better when sharpened by a GOOD, not necessarily cheap, sharpener.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Leon - You make a good point about Charles MC from Freud. He's a class act too...he'll take good care of you and will answer all your questions without making a sales pitch.
Charles is indeed a class act; his technical advice is dependable, and his presence here I believe generates a lot of goodwill towards Freud.....every manufacturer would benefit by representation of that calibre. Plus, he's a nice guy....has yet to smack me for preferring other blades....and I'm smackable. I hope he sticks around.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Matthew, of the blades you are considering, I have only used the Forrest WWII. When I replaced my 10" saw with a 12", it was the only blade that I kept and had rebored. It does an overall pretty good job when ripping and an excellent job crosscutting. I cut mostly hardwoods and plywood with an occasional run through MDF.
When I need to buy a new blade, the best advice I have gotten is from the guy that does my sharpening. He is quite familiar with the different blades available including the various grades of carbide. My sharpener also sells blades but it isn't a significant portion of his business. He asks me specifically what materials and types of cuts that I will be doing and recommends the appropriate blade for the job. He also will take the blade back and replace with a different one if it doesn't work well. This is pretty good insurance for me and I have yet to return a blade because it didn't perform as he recommended. You may want to check with your sharpener on this.
Steve
I have a Systematic combo and an FS Tools rip blade. Before I bent it, I had an FS Tools combo blade and liked it better than the Systematic. I have a thin-kerf Freud rip blade left-over from before I got a cabinet saw that I never use. The 12" 100t FS Tools blade I put on my slider is amazing. I doubt I will ever buy anything other than FS Tools. I agree with the others that recommned a thin-kerf blade for a bench top or contractor saw. You can rip better with a combo blade than the other way around.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Yup, I'm loyal to FS Tools when I have a choice, though I have blades from lots of other manufacturers, including Forrest and Freud, also. Excellent blades, and very good value.....got turned on to them by sharpeners. Only qualification I would make is I have heard from several guys with straight-line rip saws that they have had problems with one particular FS blade.....something in the combination of that model of blade, and a particular model of rip-saw (one brand is very common in this regions, and all the guys who have described this problem have the same saw), doesn't work. That's the only issue I have ever heard of with FS Tools blades.
I stand in awe of the marketing job Forrest does.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I would highly recommend a Tenryu GM-25540 blade. It is the best blade that I have ever used in my Unisaw. The blade cuts like a hot knife thru butter, leaves a very smooth cut and is extremely quiet when cutting. This blade is in my saw 90% of the time as it is a good ripper also.
One thing that I have to point out is that I love my Grizzly G0543 jointer. Do not hold that against me, try the Tenryu blade.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/tenryu/goldme.html
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I have used the Fuied combination blade for years and am happey with it, I have never used the glue line blade so i have no opinion on it,
Have a nice day Lee
Hmmmmm, I missed the "benchtop" part of the equation. I'll second the notion to use a thin kerf rip blade and repeat the suggestion to try the Diablo 24-tooth blade before forking out for the glue-line blade. I've found that as long as my saw is tuned and my technique is spot-on, the Diablo produces a fantastic surface.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forrest Woodworker II Blades are GREAT if you use your saw ALOT and got deep pockets... Well worth every cent.. Just me
Shhh, not in front of the Freud guy :-)
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Visit Dust Maker
I've not used the Tenryu. I'm a Forrest fan..I have three Woodworker IIs and their Dado set.
Nothing else has compared.
lp
Do you have the 30 t and the 40 t WW11'?
Walker1
Hi Walker,
I have 2 40-tooth thin-kerfs and a regular kerf 40-tooth. Why?
I bought the first one..it was great, but eventually it needed sharpening. So I could part with #1, I bought a backup. Of course, with the nice new backup, I had a nice sharp blade so didn't send the other out for sharpening....
Do you see where this is going? Smile.
One is plenty unless you make your living at this or truly can't do without it for the week it takes to get it sharpened.
lp
I have the 40 t full kerf WW11 and love it, I was just looking for feedback on the 30 T, as to how much more ripping power it has over the 40T.
You say you have both the thin kerf and full kerf 40T. Why?, and which do like better.
Walker1
They both seem to cut about the same...perhaps the thin kerf just a bit smoother..but who knows? Could be my imagination.
lp
Walker,
Although thin kerf blades are theoretically more likely to succumb to plate deflection, they're just the ticket when you're trying to get the most oomph out of a light-duty or portable saw; if you're running a 3-5hp saw, the full-width kerf "should" provide more durable service.
I've been running a thin kerf WWII for about 15 years, and I'm perfectly satisfied.
FWIW,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
The Woodworker II is totally overrated. It is incredibly sharp and the cut is outstanding at the time of purchase, more so than most other blades, however, it wears much faster than other blades like Freud or Amana,..etc When they do these tests in magazines they really should include a long term rating. No other blade Ive ever used wears as fast. What I think has happened is that alot of those buying them are recreational woodworkers and for that type of usage they might stay sharp for a year or two, however, in my commercial shop I have noticed significant degredation in the cut within a few days. We use Freud or Amana blades now as they stay sharper much longer so overall quality is better and they are cheaper. Ive given it a shot twice and its failed me both times, so never again.
Jim,
Thanks for the input. Actually, I have heard from a few people, and several have said so here in this discussion, that the Freud blades are a good bet. I'm also still curious about the new "premium" blades made by Ridgid.Thanks again! Honest opinions are golden here!
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