Replies

1. 
   MarkRoderick | Nov 19, 2003 01:07am | #1

   I don't think there's any doubt that in this scenario the solid of wood approach will be stronger. You won't get much of a glue joint with the end grain of the upright piece, so all the strength will be coming from the biscuits.

   Of course, the biscuits might well be strong enough for the job, making it an academic question.

   Depending on your design, you could incorporate a shallow mortise and tenon joint where the pieces come together.

   You could also run a couple of big screws up through the base piece into the upright that would hold forever.

1. 
   jerroldewheeler | Nov 19, 2003 01:36am | #2

   Thanks.  That was what I felt should be the case.  However, I wanted to pose the question because of all the hype one reads regarding biscuit joints and because it would conserve  on consumption of wide boards.  However, this is for a special neice.

   Thanks again, Jerry

2. 
   mlbfreestyle | Nov 19, 2003 01:47am | #3

   It sounds like you are talking about a design where you have a foot that goes from side-to-side with the 32" vertical member going up from there to serve as the hanging bracket for the cradle.    The whole thing looking like an inverted T.  Am I correct?

   If so, I would not make this out of a single piece of stock.  If you did so; you would end up with the feet being made of all short grain.  It would look strange, tend to warp, and be very weak.

   I would use two seperate pieces of stock; one for the foot and one for the riser; joined with M-T or biscuits.  I would also avoid the screw option.  You would end up threading the screw into the end-grain of the riser.  Screws do not hold as well in end-grain as they do in side-grain.  Not to say that the screw joint would immediately fall apart, but depending on the specific dimensions (and resulting leverage forces) you will un-necessarily weaken the piece.

3. 
   JohnWW | Nov 19, 2003 02:01am | #4

   Jerry,

   If I understand correctly what you are trying to do, the two arms of the "T" will have their grain running vertically which will make them very fragile and easily cracked off if someone hits one of the arms with their foot for instance.  Normally a horizontal at the bottom of a leg almost always has the grain running lengthwise for this reason. 

   There are a number of ways to attach the upright to the crosspiece that would result in a very strong joint.  A shallow mortise and tenon with bolts into the end of the upright would be my personal choice.  Look up designs for trestle tables, which have to deal with much more stress than the cradle, to see what is commonly done.   The upright being one inch thick seems a little thin for this application, 6/4 stock is more typical.

   John W.

   Post Script: Based on Freestyles comments about screws into end grain: if you used two 5/16 inch diameter lag bolts and ran them into 1/4 inch pilot holes, 4 inches into the uprights the strength would be very high.  The mortise would handle most of the stress on the joint, the screws would only serve to pull the joint tight so the mortise would have maximum strength.

   
   

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   Edited 11/18/2003 6:09:16 PM ET by JohnW

   
   

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   Edited 11/18/2003 6:13:09 PM ET by JohnW

4. 
   Crunk | Nov 19, 2003 02:36am | #5

   Avoid glue-ups whenever you can.  Period.

5. 
   robkelly1 | Nov 19, 2003 05:47am | #6

   You should always avoid short grain in loadbearing conditions if you can. Use a M&T joint, glue it and peg it with a contrasting wood or the same wood, depending on style.  A tenon of 5/16" thickness should suffice. A loose tenon is plenty strong and a lot easier. Leave at least 3/4" of wood at the ends of the mortise. Since the pegs are not really needed for strength, you can omit them or fake them with 1/4" deep plugs. The benefit of the fakes is that they will show flat grain. Ignore  BossCrunk. He won't post any of his work and his advice is generally suspect or just plain wrong.

   My advice, on the other hand, is generally correct but sometimes physically unsafe to follow.

6. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 19, 2003 07:31am | #7

   Am not entirely clear on what you intend, but why not a conventional foot with a wedged or drawbores M/T joint for the upright?

   This one I made for the new bride 3 decades ago withstood a few children and other assorted abuse:

   http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594265/38526070.jpg

7. 
   AlanTurner | Nov 19, 2003 04:09pm | #8

   Mark,

   A few details will be needed for an accurate answer.  How wide is the foot?  If the upright is 32" long by 3.5" wide, I assume the foot is 18" or so long, + or -.  If so, I would definitely use a mortise and tenon configuration.  I would probably go with a 3/8" wide tenon, through to the bottom, and wedge it on both ends.  Since the open end and wedges will not be visible, it is an easy joint, even with hand tools, which I seem to recall is your preference.  I avoid metal fasteners if at all possible, and here it is possible.  If you want to use screws, then you might consider a cross dowel of decent size, perhaps 3/4", to receive the screw threads.  Inserted form the indie of the upright, it should not bee too visible, or it could be a design feature.  I recall a piece by Wendall Castle which must have had hundreds of light dots on a dark field.

   My Dad made my first son a cradle in July 1980.  It has now seem about 20 or so kids, and is currenly the livingroom sleeping furn. for my first grandchild.  I have always passed it around.  Many wonderful stories surround this piece.  when I finally got it back the last time, it had been on the raod show for about 5 years, and I refinished it, and tightened up the base.  Should be good for another 20 years or so now.

   Alan