Replies

1. 
   user-83153 | Jan 12, 2008 03:20am | #1

   The following is just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

   "When using gell stain (i.e. General Finish Gel) on cherry do I need to first seal the wood with either shellac or tung oil to prevent blotching?"

   Yes, Seal it with a coat of garnet shellac, followed by one or two coats of blond shellac and then forget about the stain.

   "Also looking for color suggest for use on the cherry."

   How about....cherry. You know, the color that $5 to $6 b/f wood you bought came with.

                                 Rob

1. 
   Triumph | Jan 12, 2008 04:42am | #2

   Like the idea of the garnet shellac.  Will give it a go on some scrap.     If this was for me would just be tung oil and shellac, but am building for someone else, so gotta please them

2. 
   mapleman | Jan 12, 2008 07:58am | #3

   When using gell stain (i.e. General Finish Gel) on cherry do I need to first seal the wood with either shellac or tung oil to prevent blotching?

   I have to disagree with Rob. I would not pre-seal with anything. I build cabinets for a living and use the General gel stain on maple and cherry all of the time.  Goes on very evenly and no blotching. The important thing to remember is that sealing with shellac is going to prevent some absorption of the stain into the wood. You will not be able to achieve a nice rich color with the stain alone if you seal with anything first.

   Lee

   
   

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   Edited 1/11/2008 11:59 pm by mapleman

1. 
   JeffHeath | Jan 12, 2008 06:51pm | #4

   Lee

   Do you have a preferred method with gel stain to get that orange/amber color so prevalent and beautiful on cherry?  I can get it with shellac, but I hate spraying solvent based products in my shop, as I have no spray booth.

   Thanks,

   Jeff

1. 
   mapleman | Jan 12, 2008 10:14pm | #5

   Jeff,

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   These are the color swatches from General for their gel stains. Keep in mind they are on red oak.

   I have personally used golden pine, new pine, candlelite, georgian cherry, and java.

   Candlelite will get you close, but not quite that warm orange look like you describe - more of like a mellowed light brown (like a piece of cherry left in the sun for a few days). Golden pine is extremely yellow. New pine adds just a hint of warmth - on maple it makes it look a little aged (not really yellow - if that makes any sense).

   Here is what I would do (and I have done it before with great sucess). You could start with new pine (which is just a little warm) and add enough amber or orange dye to your liking. I have read the transtint instructions and they don't really recommend mixing with oil base products. I have not had any problems, and I have done it quite a few times.

   In fact I needed to stain a maple job a deep, rich "cherry" color (like the fake a$$ cherry color you see on bedroom furniture that reallly isn't cherry at all - probably poplar or alder). I had to add a whole 2 oz bottle of transtint to the quart of gel stain but I ended up with a nice rich color. You will have to stir the gel stain about every hour or so to keep it mixed really well. If you let the can sit for a few days the dye will float to the top but it stirs right back in. I suspect that is why they do not recommend it for some oil base applications. You won't really be adding that much dye to the stain so I don't think seperation would be an issue.

   What you will need to do is add a few drops of transtint at a time and creep up on the right tone, then wipe it on. The dye will give you the color and the gel stain will help it absorb evenly. You will just have to approximate the color of the shellac with the gel mixture. I know it sound unconventional but it seems to work for me. It's a shame General doesn't have more colors to choose from because I really like the way they go on. Bartley's is good stuff too, but I think General's colors are a little stronger.

   Transtint also makes an amber additive which can be added to water based coatings to replicate the look of laquer - but that may be a bit too light ( or you may have to add quite a bit to get where you need to be).

   Hope this helps,

   Lee

1. 
   Ronaway | Jan 13, 2008 06:02am | #6

   Lee,The General Finishes web site states that the gel stain contains some urethanes. Does that limit the use of certain top coats and sealers, like for instance shellac?RonIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 13, 2008 06:47am | #7

   Wouldn't be a problem with shellac, which sticks to almost anything.   (However, polyurethane doesn't adhere well to shellac which contains its natural wax, but does OK with dewaxed shellac. ) 

   That said, why on earth add urethane to a stain?  Ah, the wonders of "marketing". 

2. 
   mapleman | Jan 13, 2008 08:10am | #8

   Ron,

   What Steve said! Ha Ha Ha

   But seriously, to answer your question, I don't know. I missed the part on their web site about the urethane. Normally when I topcoat with shellac it's something for myself and it doesn't stain. Normally when I stain it's not something for me and I use what's best for the application.

   Cheers,

   Lee