Replies

1. 
   jonsherryl | Dec 22, 2002 12:19am | #1

   I doubt if household ammonia will be strong enough to give you much depth of color. I use it occasionally to tone up oak when the natural color isn't uniform enough, but that's about the best you can do with the 5%, grocery store type "clear" ammonia. There are stronger ammonias available commercially, but they can be a little potent and dangerous to work with...so, be careful.

   As for the ammonia interfering with subsequent finishing, this shouldn't be a problem so long as you allow the surface to thoroughly dry. While ammonia is a strong base, it is actually a gas carried in a water solution and it should evaporate off...At least I've had no difficulty with my usual finishing technique, which consists of a sealing coat of shellac followed by alkyd varnish top coats. Lacquer might be more sensitive, but I have no experience with using it over ammonia treated oak.

   
   

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   Edited 12/21/2002 4:22:29 PM ET by Jon Arno

1. 
   orcasguy | Dec 22, 2002 12:54am | #2

   Thank you for your prompt reply, Jon. Have you heard of alcohol based ammonia? If so, where can I get a small quiantity? If I have to use 26% ammonia (outside) can I brush it on? Do I need to cover it or repeatedly keep it wet? Thank you.

2. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 22, 2002 01:23am | #3

   Household ammonia will easily color oak deep enough that you can sand the surface without fear of sanding off the colored layer. Fuming oak in an airtight container, I got a colored layer that was at least 1/16" thick in less than 48 hours.

   Water and ammonia both evaporate in air, so you shouldn't have any concerns about residue, if you buy non-detergent ammonia. I have never applied liquid ammonia, so the following is just conjecture, but my conjecture is that if you wipe on light coats and let it dry between coats until you can't smell ammonia, you won't have any problem with the color getting too dark. It shouldn't be too hard to calibrate how much additional color another coat of ammonia produces. For me, the risk would be getting impatient and putting on too much.

   The advice I have usually seen for fuming large pieces is to build a lightweight plastic tent and put the workpiece under it with open dishes of ammonia. It doesn't need to be terribly airtight, just tight enough to hold in a significant amount of ammonia vapor. Any improvised enclosure that will keep the breeze out should do just fine.

1. 
   cheakamus | Dec 22, 2002 02:49am | #4

   There is a reference in one of the various books on Stickley to his workers applying liquid ammonia to the oak paneling in a house his company had designed and was building. As best I recall, it doesn't say what strength ammonia they were using or whether they had any kind of protective equipment!

   I regularly use 24% ammonia to fume furniture in my garage. I make tents out of (usually large) cardboard boxes covered with plastic and duct tape. I don't use a respirator because I find I can open my container of ammonia, pour some into a pie pan, close the ammonia container, and slip the pie pan under the tent in about 15 seconds, i.e., quickly enough that I just need to hold my breath. This, of course, would not work applying liquid ammonia to the walls of an entire room!

3. 
   jgaiennie | Dec 22, 2002 06:49pm | #5

   You can purchase 25% ammonia from a blue print shop or architectural reprographics shop.  Call around - you'll find someone who has it available.

4. 
   JMcIntee | Dec 23, 2002 12:18am | #6

   I routinely fume A&C quartersawn oak with ammonia in homemade tents. I did acquire about 4 gallons of ammonia from a local draftsman who doesn't blueprint anymore. He was happy to get rid of it. I have never directly applied ammonia to the surface, I think it would be way too strong and turn the wood black.

   I find that pie plates work well, just set them inside the tent with the piece. Watch how long your fume , though. Sometimes a couple of hours is all that is needed.