I’m in the process of building a bookcase of white oak for my daughter’s bedroom. I’ve never fumed oak before, but I thought I’d try it on this project. I have a few comments here, if any of these are wrong, please let me know.
1) I plan to build a framework from thin PVC to encompass the bookcase, then enclose it in plastic and duct tape, to get the whole thing as airtight as possible.
2) I will raise the bookcase off the floor slightly with blocks to get a sheet cake style metal pan under it to hold the ammonia. May use two pans, dunno yet.
Here are my questions.
1) Any good source out there for the high test, nasty ammonia? Will the regular household variety do the same job?
2) How long does this process of fuming the wood take? I’m sure it depends on the strength of the ammonia.
3) Is there an environmentally safe way to dispose of ammonia, or is it OK to dilute it and pour it in the yard?
4) What is the best, or your favorite, finish to go over fumed white oak? I was thinking of shellac, but I welcome your thoughts here.
5) Anything glaring I’m overlooking?
Thanks everyone, and I look forward to the replies.
Jeff
Replies
1. Janitorial suppliers will have industrial strength ammonia but they may not want to sell to you. Regular household ammonia from the grocery will do the job just fine. you just have to use a little more of the household type and maybe give a little longer exposure.
2. Plan on two to four days for the strongest fuming effects. You can stop at any point where you have the look you want. Longer exposures result in more raw umber (greenish brown) or grayish tones, depending on the wood. White oaks seem to go more toward the grays. Shorter exposures are the warmer tones. With the plastic you can get a peek at what is happening without disturbing the process.
3. Ammonia is a powerful fertilizer... so yes diluted and applied to the yard it is actually good for it ( it reacts to produce nitrogen in the soil).
4. Shellac is fine but I'd favor wipe on polyurethane varnish.
5. Do be cautious as ammonia is heavier than air and will displace moisture burning your lungs if inhaled. This is why it also will injure eyes and sting mucous membranes.
I've done some fuming although not on so large a scale. However, I am going to fume a blanket chest I'm building for my wife so I'll be catching up to you soon.
Chemical supply houses have ammonium hydroxide. Household ammonia and janatorial ammonia could work, but will take a long time to acheive good color. Also drafting supply stores may still sell the strong stuff because it was used in the old blue line machines, (obsolete now). Ammonium hydroxide is about 13% ammonia.
FIRST PRECAUTION: get a respirator with filters for ammonia. Just a whif of the stuff will knock you for a loop.
Wear goggles when handling ammonia. Wear chemical gloves. DON"T FUME INDOORS and be considerate of your neighbors. You don't want them smelling pi$$ all day. I use plastic to hold my ammonia. I'm not a chemist so I was worried about ammonia reacting with aluminum and skunking my works. I'm not sure if it's a concern, perhaps someone else can guide us here.
Put some scrap pieces into your "tent" along with your bookcase. You can take them out after a while and check for the color you want. Be aware that boards from different logs might color at different rates, so I try to fume pieces instead of the whole project. Fuming will not interfere with gluing like staining does, so no problem with this method.
You can pour the stuff on the grass, (it's just fertilizer), but water it in good or you'll burn the grass up and have a nice bare spot in your lawn to go along with your new bookcase.
I like garnett shellac over fumed white oak, but the final finish is your preference. Use your fumed scraps to experiments before you conquer the bookcase.
Have fun, be careful and just one more thing. Let the piece air in the shop for a while before you bring it in the house. "Ammonia don't smell like Aqua Velva..."
UUUMM some of the industrial ammonia (from janitorial suppliers) I used to have was 70 per cent solution. I have used it and the household stuff and I'll never get the industrial again. I guess it depends on your personal definition of "a long time".
I once read about a way to make white oak look as if it was fumed the old way but using a much safer and less nasty process (without the ammonia). I can't recall where I read it but I'm sure that you may find it by searching the web. From what I recall the result was almost exactly like those produced by the traditional ammonia fuming method. Good luck and be safe.
Pizza (? unusual name),
You can use dyes to get virtually the same effect as fuming. I assume that is what you are thinking about.
Rob
I got my ammonia for fuming at a swimming pool supply store. 26% stuff. Ive had pieces in for 2 hours that took on a nice medium nut brown color when oiled or shellaced. The oak will look a funky light grey color when it comes out of the chamber. I've also had pieces in for up to 12 hours that were virtually ebonized. It all depends on the levels of tannin in the particular piece of wood you are fuming. Thats why it's important to try to use boards of similar grain and color. Also, any sap wood will not fume effectively. If dissimilar boards are used and you have been forced to include sapwood you will end up using dyes to even out the color.
Experiment, experiment ,experiment - Take off cuts of the boards used for the case and place in chamber.Assuming the boards are similar. Remove a piece at a time avery hour, wipe some oil on and check it out. When you find the tone you are looking for note the length of time in and use that as your guide for the main event.
As far as old style of fuming, success could be found by placing boards of oak in a horse stable for a few months. A longer but more natural approach to fuming.
Earl J - Anniston AL
That's interesting--why would a pool supply store have ammonia? One of the purposes of the chlorine and other stuff you add to your pool is to remove ammonia.
One thing that sometimes gets lost in the discussions of fuming is that the ammonia penetrates very deeply into the wood, 1/2" or more. What that means is that you can fume your stock (the 4/4 stuff, at least--I haven't tried thicker pieces) before final milling and assembly. That gives you a lot more flexibility with stock selection, color matching, etc.
-Steve
Drafting supply companies also carry industrial ammonia for those using blueprint machines. I recall trying store bought stuff for ours once and after trying we chatted with our service guy. He got a good chuckle from that one.
Brad
See if you can get all of the boards out of the same tree, that way they will absorb the fumes at the same rate. If you have boards from different trees the color might not be the same shade for the amount of time in the tent. If you do this outside try and get the tent out of the sun so you don't have a condensation problem inside the tent. After taking it out of the tent let the bookcase sit outside for a while so the fumes in the boards will dissipate. Don't forget to get a good respirator and the rest of the PPE, what you are working with could be deadly. If all of this sounds to be a pain you can always replicate the finish using dyes, stains and toners.
go to this link
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2794
Edited 2/8/2008 9:15 am ET by GW52
Edited 2/8/2008 9:25 am ET by GW52
Hi Jeff,
I use a glass pie dish for the ammonia which needs to be aqueous (?spelling) 26% ammonia. Office supply places may have it as it's used in blue print machines. Any type of frame will work, You need to where protection for both eyes and lungs as it is nasty, if you get a wiff of it you'll know it. Regular housesold bleach is about 4%?
It takes anywhere from 4 to 24 hours depending on how dark you want the wood. I've used miniwax cherry #235 stain and amber shellac and it creates a real authentic Arts & Crafts look.
I dillute the ammonia down before you try to dispose of it with water for easier handling.
Tom
I'm also thinking of fuming a current project, but have two questions which were not answered in these posts.
1. My project is in red oak. Does fuming work equally well for both types?
2. I read the article on using dyes and pigments to replicate the finish. Is there any real advantage to fuming other than "tradition"?
I don't have any problem working with ammonia. So the process doesn't bother me. Other than the exposure time, it seems a simpler process.
By the way, ammonia IS fertilizer. It is what many farmers apply to their fields. Just be sure, as mentioned before, that it is well dilluted before applying to any plants.
John
1) The color that red oak obtains upon fuming is, in my opinion, not nearly as nice as what you get with white oak. The fuming process imparts a slight greenishness that doesn't play well with the natural pinkishness of red oak.
2) Fuming penetrates very deeply. Scratches and dings won't reveal any unwanted "naked" oak.
Ammonia can be used as fertilizer, but it's like 80-0-0, so it's not a complete fertilizer.
I don't have any problem working with ammonia, either. It's ironic that people are far more inclined to shy away from ammonia, which is acutely unpleasant, than from a lot of stuff that's far more harmful but isn't so "in your face" about it.
-Steve
Red oak doesn't contain nearly the same amount of tannic acid as white oak. We have been fuming red oak timbers and use a tannic acid solution we brush on and then fume it. We use anhydrous ammonia in a hundred lb tank. Strongest you can get.
one caution I would suggest is to not get any chlorine base products near the ammonia such as pool supplies etc. Will combine to make a very poisonous gas. I have used the formula of a wad of steel wool in a jar of white vinegar (quantity is not an exact science - ) shake it up for a few times for a couple of days and apply to the white oak It will develop a black color This is an ebonizing process and can be somewhat controlled with dilution etc. It works on other hard wood too like cherry or walnut If used practice on some scrap first. Maybe black is not what you want but if ever you need to ebonize etc
Ed.
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