Replies

1. 
   Segil | Nov 30, 2005 05:50pm | #1

   I'm not sure I fully understand your trouble, but it sounds like you are trying to use both the right and left hand sides of the Omnijig in your dovetail operation.  I have used mine successfully for many years using only the left hand end of the jig.  Actually, the widest I've ever dovetailed is about 14", so the right end has never been utilized.  Back off the both stops, set the drawer side in the front first, letting it stick up about 1/4" past the surface but not all the way to the template.  Next, slide in the stock on top under the template butting it against the other piece so you know it is square in the jig.  Now is the tricky part.  You must slide this top piece sideways under the template until it symetrically located in the template slots.  If a 1/4" protrudes into the open slot on the right, it must also on the left.  This must be precise, as being off just a little will double when the drawer is assembled.  Once this is right, set the stop accordingly and repeat with the front piece, which you can now push all the way up to the template.  Once both stops are set, Take acouple of waste sides and test the set-up.  Tweak if necessary until you get a perfect fit. 

        The side height need not be a multiple of 7/8", but it works well if it is.  All side stock must be of consistent thickness and width to work properly.  I think at some point, it might be the manuals and video you throw out, definitely not the jig.

1. 
   Manny | Nov 30, 2005 06:38pm | #3

   Thanks a lot for your words. I will do that.. Is that some times we try to be a perfectionist and I was trying to use both sides, as you certainly notice. I thought of using just one side and forget about it. Now, if I am using only one side... that means all sides must be exactly equal , so it doesn't matter how you put them. I am saying this , because, according to the video, when you use both sides, there is a special order in which you have to position the drawer parts to have a good match.

   Thanks .,

   Manny

2. 
   BG | Nov 30, 2005 06:32pm | #2

   Manny,
   I don't have the Omni but a knockoff which is fairly similar. I found the best way to understand how to use the jig was to learn how to cut dovetails by hand...Ian Kirby's The Complete Dovetail. Once you understand the processes (square stock, marking face side, etc. and how the parts need to align the jig becomes ####lot less mysterious. It's very difficult to visualize the end product when using the jig without prior experience cutting dovetails be hand..imho.

1. 
   Manny | Nov 30, 2005 06:52pm | #4

   Thanks for your advice. I know how to cut them by hand, the only thing is that I have to make a bunch of drawers for my kitchen and since I am not Mr.Klauz ( you have to see his video, the guy cuts dovetails like a machine) , I wanted to use the jig....

    

3. 
   DougU | Dec 01, 2005 08:16am | #5

   Manny

   I have the Omni, just used it today to make some drawers for a kitchen that I'm building.

   You use both sides of the jig, don't quite follow what the one person is saying about just using one side???

   I mark all my sides with a,b,c,d, also marking the top to orient the board in the jig properly, then set them up and start routing using the  ab, ad, dc, db.

   I had a hell of a time setting mine up, the slightest adjustment(by slight I mean 1/32" or less) can make a huge difference in the results.

   Doug

    

1. 
   Segil | Dec 02, 2005 01:21am | #6

   Manny,

        There is simply no reason you must use both sides of the jig, contrary to what others have said in this thread.  As I said, I have been doing this professionally for more than fifteen years and over a thousand drawers on my Omnijig, and I grow tired of being second-guessed by craftsmen of lesser experience.  I am speaking from knowledge, not speculation when I say that the left side is all you need.  You can utilize the right side if you wish, but you lose the commonality of parts that makes drawer box building efficient.  I  do not need to label which joint goes with what;  They all fit together perfectly.  I'm sorry to sound testy about this, but I am trying to help out a fellow woodworker with an understandable dilemna, and don't like being contradicted on a factual point by others.  I hope you try out keying all parts from the left side of this wonderful jig;  I believe you may find your solution.  Good Luck.

1. 
   Manny | Dec 02, 2005 03:46am | #9

   Segil,

   I did all the sides of the box on one side and it worked, just that two ends are "higher" that the other,  I guess the opposite corners. The video I watch, use both ends of the jig I guess to eliminate this problem and it seems logical. One of the biggest issues I have is creating a mirror image from the left.

   If I have the left side sent exactly in both ways to the board (symetrical), they all should match , does not mater what sides you mark, I agree...

   I am using 1/2 "  1/2 dovetails on boards of 7/8" increment. Could you read me the measurements you have set the stops in the jig? I am trying to get a perfect fit.. I guess I put 10 hours on this! Yes I know.. please don't say it...

   By the way, I thought I share this.. just bought 140 BF Hard Maple 4/4 (exact 1") for $200.00..... all I need for my doors ... not everything is hard lately :)

2. 
   DougU | Dec 02, 2005 09:15am | #11

   Segil

   I've been doing this kind of work for 25 to 30 years myself and I have probably ran as many drawers through my jig as  you have.

   I've never considered that you could use just the one side. Having said that I'm sure, as you say that that's the way you do it, that it does work. This is one time that I actually read and followed the instructions to the TEE. I couldn't figure the damn thing out without them. Course I don't have your aptitude.

   But I guess your experience and divine wisdom is all that count here, sorry to offer advice that would contradict your honor!

   Yea the marking of the pieces is really a time consumer, had I not wasted all that time marking mine well hell, I could probably have built another 6, maybe 7 drawers in the past 25 years.

   Get over yourself, nobody was saying you don't know what your talking about, yours isn't the only way to skin the cat.

   Doug

    

1. 
   Manny | Dec 02, 2005 02:45pm | #12

   Doug,

   Since you made so many drawers, I imagine, you have set your jig long time ago and left it there to do the job... But see if you remember..:

   1.) Cutting the parts of the drawer in 7/8 " increments?

   2.) Setting the stops according to the book or going by eye?

   3.) What about thicknesses of the drawer parts? 3/4" front and back and 1/2" sides?

   Thanks for your help. With the good advice from you all I am almost there..I rather use this jig for this type of work than my Incra.

   Manny

1. 
   Segil | Dec 02, 2005 04:37pm | #13

   My application may be a bit different from yours.  I am rarely able to use the same setting for long because I have to use several different drawer side heights, and can't be limited to increments of 7/8".  I often use pre-made prefinished drawer side stock and so have to accommodate their standard sizes, which are 2", 4", 6", 8", 10", 12".  So I ultimately have to change the jig settings a few times for each set of drawers that I do.  To complicate this further, this pre-made stock varies from batch to batch by as much as 1/4".  This job would be considerably more ponderous if I had to change both sets of stops and label all the parts every time.  I am a somewhat disorganized guy, and could easily lose track of what goes with what.  I've even been known to inadvertantly sand off tracking numbers now and then.   Using the left end only, I have two piles- Jims and Janes, I'm sure you know which is which. 

        The main drawback to this method is that any error is doubled at assembly, so you must be dead on.  The numbers on the stops mean little in this application, what counts is your eyes.  The machining must be absolutely in the center of the drawer side end.  Once you get used to doing this, its pretty quick and easy. 

        Clearly, the method that utilizes both sides as shown in the video has been established as a valid choice, and should work fine for you if it fits with your production flow.

      The other point I would mention is that I have good luck with a live bearing on the shaft of the cutter to run in the jig slots rather than a bushing.  This eliminates any error you might experience from an off-center bushing.  Good Luck!

2. 
   DougU | Dec 02, 2005 04:46pm | #14

   Manny

   Yes I did leave my jig set up, if I could weld it in place I probably would have.

   I really had no idea that you could do everything off of the one side. Makes sense though because the sides are symmetric. After I'm done eating breakfast I'm going out and trying it!

   I set the stops according to the book. If I remember right I did tweak one of them because I was getting a bit of an uneven fit from one side.

   For thickness of drawers; I used to use nothing but 5/8" popular, maple, even walnut for drawer thickness. I have used some of the baltic birch but it doesn't seam to route all that well for me. Because of the 1/2" thickness on the birch its difficult to make that first pass to score the wood, consequently I was getting tear out. The fingers stick out to far to hit all the wood with the router bit.

   I had a master bedroom(closet) job that had over 100 drawers. They were to be made of baltic birch. I took all the sides and ran them over my table saw first to score the sides. It worked but its one more step that maybe theres a better way to do that I don't know.

   I prefer to make 5/8" sides when I can but don't always get my way. Its just a personal choice, I like the proportions of it.

   You sound like you want to make the front and back different size then the sides. I haven't ever done it that way. I assume that you want your fronts to be the finish front. I don't do them that way but I guess there isn't any reason that you cant.

   I make my drawers all the same thickness, then I apply a drawer front to them when I install. Take a look at your kitchen cabinet drawers, they are probably done this way.

   There would be to many variables to consider if I wanted to make the dovetailed fronts to be the finish product. Drawer guides would complicate things, I guess I never considered doing it that way.

   What are you planning on making drawers for? Some project you have planed?

   Doug

3. 
   Manny | Dec 02, 2005 05:31pm | #16

   Doug,

   Segil technique sound good to me, doing it by eye, since by doing it so, you can use any kind of size stock. What you describe is happening to me, and certainly all these comments have given me a lot to work with. I do need to adjust the front part of the jig, so get the even part.. ( now that I made on almost perfect, I am so afraid to move the stops after all these tries...

   The drawers are for my kitchen , wich I am practicing now and getting my shop ready for the project so I don't want to do this a the last... I used for all the drawers before a locking bit, wich is incredible fast, and took much less time to set up... and talking about kitchen.. here is another question ....

   Would you do the doors, drawers first and then the carcases? I heard this method is better , so you don't have to fill your ever hungry-needed space shop? What do you think Segil? Anybody want to throw and opinion?

   Thanks a lot. Manny

4. 
   DougU | Dec 02, 2005 07:20pm | #17

   Manny

   I'm at home today working in the shop so I'm spending more time in here on the computer as opposed to out doing work!

   I tried Segils way and it did work, not that I was disputing him it just didn't dawn on me to do it that way. I have a tough time changing something that works for me. I still figure % the way I learned in grade school, even though I know more effective ways of doing it.

   As far as your Q about the doors and drawers, I don't usually do it that way but I do a detailed drawing of the cabinets to be built so there isn't any reason that I couldn't.

   I've worked in shops where we had one man build drawer and doors as someone else was building the carcass. No reason that you cant do it that way. If you do chose that method I'd suggest making sure you have the details down pat before proceeding.

   I've ordered my doors and drawers out before when I needed to get a job done fast. I would order the doors and drawers based on my drawings and I don't recall ever having to re-order because the carcasses didn't come out the size that I wanted it to.

   Others will have opinions as well, use all of them to get what works best for your situation. Sounds like your doing the planning well in advance, thats a good thing!

   Doug

    

    

    

5. 
   Segil | Dec 02, 2005 04:47pm | #15

   DougU,

       Clearly the method you prescribe is the one shown in the original video from the manufacturer, and you have it down pat.  It works for you, and I have considered doing it that way for certain applications in my shop.  Haven't done it yet, but I will.  Everyone finds their own comfort level in their shop.  Manny was having difficulty setting this method up, so I was trying to present an alternative that would help him.  I did not mean to suggest that "my way is the only way", but reading my post from last night, one could certainly get that impression.  Please attribute it to a long day in the shop. 

6. 
   DougU | Dec 02, 2005 07:27pm | #18

   Segil

   I went out and tried your technique, worked good. It just never dawned on me to try it any other way.

   I went through the same frustration that Manny is going through and I suppose that once I got it down I wasn't about to change it!

   Your right about the comfort level.

   My apologizes if I came across as a dick, its kinda my nature, at least that's what my wife says. <G>

   I learn new things all the time, this is another one to store in the memory banks!

   Thanks

   Doug

    

    

4. 
   GrGramps | Dec 02, 2005 02:00am | #7

   Manny, These jigs, (I use a Leigh) are not the easiest things to understand. Out of curosity I went to the Porter Cable site and looked up the owners manual and found their instruction referring to the "other end." I think that you will find that they are suggesting the other end of the board - not the other end of the jig. See the instructions:
   http://media.ptg-online.com/20030509140847_En%20888381%20-%2004-31-79.pdf

   I would put my money on Sequil.
   Roy

5. 
   ram | Dec 02, 2005 03:28am | #8

   Manny,

   I use a Leigh for through dovetails and a Porter-Cable 4210 for half blind (because setup is so easy, and both sides of the joint are cut with one pass).

   I'm a relative beginner, and can't compare my opinion with a professional (I've made only tens of drawers), but FWIW I find it useful to make chalk marks on the drawer parts.  On the inside face I mark each end with a letter indicating its match.  The front gets A - D, left side gets A - B, rear gets B - C, etc.  I start cutting with front and left, making sure I can see the chalk marks. Takes about 10 seconds.

   I used to get mixed up about orientation but not since I started doing this.

   Of course, now I'm practicing hand DTs so the jigs may not get used much.  So it goes!

   -robert

    

1. 
   Manny | Dec 02, 2005 06:57am | #10

   I had it! I tried something that really worked. I follow the instructions with a magnifying glass! I mean it!.. since we are talking of 32nds... that's what I did. I took my Starret and magnifying glass and made the "set up board". My friend Mike told me to throw away that bit that comes with the jig and use a good one, which I had. First shot.. not deep enough. Second perfect (well almost, I had to hammer down a little bit). I guess tomorrow 5 am, will come perfect.

   Leigh jig? Two routers? all I need this is for drawers. For bigger projects, by hand.

   Thanks a lot for all the help

   manny

6. 
   jackplane | Dec 02, 2005 11:08pm | #19

   Manny,

   a few things...

   not knowing your backround(no profile filled in) it's hard to tell your shop experience. Mistakes are frustrating, but no mistake is just a mistake. Always, treat it as an opportunity to learn. Then you'll progress. Keep a clock in your shop, conspicuously posted. There are times when it's important to track time, and times when it's inconsequential.Once your own rhythm is established, everything flows better. Like I'm sure others have said, master all the basics before buying/believeing the latest greatest thing on the market.

     Good luck

    

1. 
   Manny | Dec 03, 2005 02:42am | #20

   Thanks a lot Jackplane, about the jig, I wanted to expedite the procedure, after making them by hand. I enjoy the hand made dovetails, but since my time is limited, I have to do things , like drawer production, faster.

   I have the Incra Jig and this jig for that purpose. I like the Omni, though is limited to the templates, and the Incra is much more versatile, takes longer...

   Thanks  a lot

   Manny

7. 
   WillGeorge | Dec 06, 2005 04:30am | #21

   For me woodworking is a beautiful thing to free my mind and forget about the rest of the world.

   YEP! Till ya CUT something!