Replies

1. 
   PlaneCrazy | Jul 03, 2006 07:34pm | #1

   I haven't tried it but would wonder if the defrost cycle and the generally dry environment might just "freeze dry" your nice wet wood.

    

   Ken

1. 
   Chairwright | Jul 03, 2006 09:34pm | #4

   I looked at several posts here under freeze drying and what I understood from them is that evaperation of water does occur even from solid (ice), although at a much slower rate than in warm air.  I would think that maybe wrapping the blanks in plastic would further deter drying.  The defrost cycle on the huge old 1950's International Harvester freezer I bought at my wife's grandpa's estate sale for $5 operates by pulling the electric plug out of the power socket, so that shouldn't be a problem.  Chairwright

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jul 03, 2006 07:46pm | #2

   Water expands when frozen. That is how mountains get turned into smaller rocks. It might happen to your wood also. Thick plastic bags which are heat sealed should help achieve your goal along with keeping the contents very cold without freezing. Use a thermometer. LOL.

   Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   QCInspector | Jul 03, 2006 08:05pm | #3

   <<Water expands when frozen. ------- It might happen to your wood also.>>If this is the case, how do the trees, (all plants for that matter), in the Northern Hemisphere survive the winter?

1. 
   Chairwright | Jul 03, 2006 09:41pm | #6

   That is a darn good question.  I'd sure like to know.  You can fell a tree in the middle of winter way below freezing and it's wet inside, so it must not freeze.   I really don't understand that, the bark can't be that good of an insulator.  Maybe the sap has some kind of antifreeze effect?  Chairwright

1. 
   John_D | Jul 03, 2006 10:45pm | #7

   Yeah, even branch tips don't really freeze.  Here's a pretty good explanation of why, which boils down to 1) it's not pure water, so the freezing point is higher, and 2) plants in cold climates are designed so that water freezes outside cells, preventing cell membrane damage.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

2. 
   BruceS | Jul 04, 2006 03:26am | #10

   A good example of sap flow is the sugar maple,  sap flows up on 28degree+ days and drops during the night and picks up more sugars  then back up.  Sap buckets don't fill at night,  Tree tapping starts here about 3rd week of Feb.  Depending on seasonal temps.  Have made many gallons of the sweet stuff.  About 50 gal. sap/ 1 gal. syrup.

   Those who air dry lumber will tell you the winter sawn lumber will dry much faster than spring or summer sawn,  At least here in NE Ohio.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

1. 
   QCInspector | Jul 04, 2006 06:19am | #11

   It always is fun to watch where a thread will go when we are in an area where we only have a passing bit of knowledge and toss in some speculation when we answer on top of that. ;-) And I'll preface my responses for the following in that I have NO expertise in the subject and it rarely gets very cold around here either. But what the heck. In with both fingers.When I answered cadiddlehopper's post about frozen wood and mountains it was more to get him to rethink his statement as being on the wrong track (not about the mountains but of the wood), without saying as much. I know that trees and plants have evolved (or were created if you prefer) to live through cold winters when they are dormant. They don't do so well during the growing season. A late frost will ruin a farmer's crop for instance. John D 's link sweetly explains why the ice doesn't cause a problem for northern trees. The bark probably has some insulating value as it takes at least 2 weeks of -40 weather to kill the Mountain Pine Beetle, or maybe they also have some anti-freeze in their blood. Wood alcohol? ;-)Freezing wood doesn't break down the fibers. If it did, a lot of man's constructions (barns, fences, bridges, etc., wouldn't last. Many people build with frozen lumber in the winter if they have to, and not without some cursing I would suspect too. ;-) One of the few way's that freezing could possibly damage a log would be if a split was full of water when the temperature dropped. The expansion of the water changing into ice might cause the split to open in the same way that a wedge would.The desiccation in a freezer might be an issue if they were in for a very long time. I don't think that was the plan of the original poster however. Just to buy some time until he can get to turn it. The suggested bagging/wrapping in plastic would help. I'd really love to get my hands on some of Chairwright's appliances that work by unplugging them! I wonder if they made saws and jointers? A new definition for perpetual motion maybe? ;-) Or does he really live in his own world with opposite laws of physics? Lucky boy! :-)While as a bachelor I've had my share of food go moldy in the fridge I can't recall ever seeing any in my freezer section with that outcome. So I'll speculate that wood won't spalt when frozen, at least very slowly if it does.BruceS. Does the sap flow as well on heavy overcast days as it does on sunny ones? And while I'm thinking of it does the position of the tap on the trunk in relation to the compass make any difference in the flow? I'm thinking about the role the Sun's warmth plays on sap flow. Now I'll have to make myself some pancakes for breakfast so I can flood them with the sap distillate Yuuummmmmmm!!! You had to bring that up didn't you. ;-) The answer to the preservation and spalting of wood in the freezer might better be answered on the American Woodturners Forum. If it's been done before successfully/unsuccessfully they will know about it.

1. 
   BruceS | Jul 04, 2006 03:55pm | #12

   Syrup making was some 30 years ago,  don't recall that bucket location made much of a differance.  Do remember that Cold clear nights below freezing and warmer overcast days made the sap flow. Most people rave about the Fancy first run syrup which is very week tea colour,  But the third run(Dark Amber)  is much more robust and tasty.  But late syrup "Buddy"  is shipped to Vermont or Mail Pouch tobacco. Most of the days here in the winter are gloomy and overcast anyway Thats why the Ground Hog/Wood Chuck never sees his shadow till Feb 2.  Which reminds me of a joke.

   What do you call a road kill Wood Chuck ???     Ground Chuck !!!Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   QCInspector | Jul 04, 2006 06:24pm | #13

   Recently overheard somewhere in Ohio...
   Wife "Where's the Ground Chuck?"
   Husband "There's a couple in the shop freezer with the Green Maple!"
   :-)

3. 
   BruceS | Jul 04, 2006 07:19pm | #14

   "Ground Chuck"  isn't too bad if they're on a clover diet and you know how to cut out the musk gland!!  But I'll stick with Beef , Haggis or meat pies.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

3. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jul 05, 2006 05:05am | #15

   "how do the trees.... in the Northern Hemisphere survive the winter?Good question! I wish I knew. I suspect that a living tree is different from cut timber & that it can actively manage the water. It may be also that one or only a few freeze/thaw cycles don't do much damage especially if the water is distributed throughout the wood. So, maybe freezing is a very practical solution -- without a defrost cycle. It shouldn't be too hard to test the method.Cadid

1. 
   KeithNewton | Jul 06, 2006 05:05am | #16

   I have rough-turned some very punky spalted wood then soaked it before freezing then turning. It will turn great without the usual wading up when it is soft. however, I still had problems with it drying much faster than the normal wood, and checking badly.Surely some of you have heard of or read about trees sounding like gun-shots going off when it has been extremely cold for prolonged periods, if you have ever read books by Jack London, like "To build a Fire", although I seem to remember it from reading about Chief Joseph hiding out up in Canada.It sounds intriguing, the author usually attributes it to expanding ice, although I think it would be more likely from shrinkage due to drying of the surface while the moisture in the ground and tree is locked in ice.

2. 
   Chairwright | Jul 03, 2006 09:36pm | #5

   AH!  So you are suggesting a temp around 33 - 40 degrees?  Interesting, but how about the mold?  Chairwright

3. 
   TrueGentleman | Jul 03, 2006 10:54pm | #8

   I'm not sure but I think a  parrfan wax dip might work better with less damage... any comments??? Anyone try it???

   Rich

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jul 04, 2006 02:12am | #9

   It seems to be time to hear from someone who knows what he is talking about, doesn't it? Does freezing halt mold growth? As to parafin: It can be applied by means other than dipping.CadiddlehopperP.S.: Should have addressed to ALL. -- C.

   Edited 7/3/2006 7:13 pm ET by cadiddlehopper