I’m setting up a new 10″ Griz cabinet saw. My existing Mitsubishi blades are leaving blade marks in the cut so, I want to upgrade.
Can anyone give me some feedback on their experience with these manufacturers. I’ve heard good things, has anyone used both for comparison? What about tooth count?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Replies
Were they leaving marks when you used them in your old saw? If not, your problem is machine set up, not the blades per se.
No, the machine setup is good. My blade is within one or two thousands square to the miter slots and rip fence. I used a digital verneer to check the setup.
Ron
Ron,As you know, we both own shiny new Griz saws. Mine was burning wood awful on rip cuts with a clean Forrest WW2. The fence was parallel to the blade. I rotated the tooth from front to back and any difference was imperceptible. I shimmed the fence about 1/64 of an inch away from the blade and voilá, the burning disappeared!Someone replied on my other post, under General Topics, regarding burning wood on my table saw and said that Forrest recommends a slightly out of parallel fence.
Someone replied on my other post, under General Topics, regarding burning wood on my table saw and said that Forrest recommends a slightly out of parallel fence.
That gives me some serious heartburn. It doesn't make sense to spend big bucks for accuracy and then intentionally throw it out of whack !! I won't dispute what Forrest may have said but, it just doesn't make sense.
I had a high performance fence on me last saw that was within a couple of thousands square to the blade. I NEVER burnt wood while cutting. I could shave off a consistent strip 1/64" thick the full length of a six foot board.
If wood burns, there could be another problem.
I once had a car salesman tell me that disc brakes weren't as good as drum brakes...Hum!
Edited 8/11/2009 4:57 pm ET by RonT
"Forrest recommends a slightly out of parallel fence."Like you I sure am skeptical about that. I would like to see the person who posted it show the reference.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I'm not the person who posted, but here's what Forrest says about fence alignment:
http://www.forrestblades.com/Forrest_Saw_Blade_Instructions.pdf
Jim
Great article on Forrest saw blades, thanks! Currently, I've set the fence out of parallel about 1/64 of an inch, maybe less. I think that it's possibly my technique. I am moving from a 1.5 HP contractors saw to a 5HP sliding TS, I'm learning to push the wood through still. Maybe I should wax the fence too for smoother wood movement across the fence.
I 'think' some or many European saws have 'short' fences. I think for the same reason as the "out of parallel". Although those fences ARE parallel to the blade.
Once the stick is cut.. Why try to hold it in some place it does not want to be?
Thanks.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Many manufacturers suggest a very slight "toe out" of the fence to prevent the possibility of pinching from "toe in". It doesn't affect accuracy, as we're talking of 0.003" or less.
Ron,Any one of the blades mentioned will give excellent results. This kind of thread simply runs out of steam when all the makes of blades have been mentioned. Given enough time, you'll be told to use every blade in existence.But you ignored Steve's advice which was right on the mark. Setting your blade "within one or two thousands square to the miter slots and rip fence" will not necessarily give the best results (if it is even that close, despite your confidence that it is). As mentioned by another poster, setting the rip fence slightly wider at the back end can make a significant difference. Practically all saw manufacturers recommend such an offset regarding a long rip fence. Other adjustment tweaks can also make a difference, despite "perfect" readings on a micrometer.Rich
Hi
Well you said the same thing my shop teacher told me in 1975.Wish the other teachers had that much on the ball!!!!!!!! especially the guidance councellorIf you watch the wood as it cuts and one side seems to pinch, flip the board and it opens, tension release, period. let the fence wander a wee bit and you will have a smoother cut.
Some times perfect settings are for metal milling and shooting men into space, but when it comes to wood you must respect it's gentry.
I can't speak but to one brand Forrest. I bought it on reecomendation from this forum when I got my Griz and have had it for about 4 years now (I think) and its been fantastic. I also have the forrest dado set and lover that one as well as a WWI on the RAS. Short anser I know but it custs laser smooth and thats all I can really ask. The wwII does bot cc and rips well. I'd love to have one of the special Forrest rib blades. But the combo does such a good job and I'm lazy so I like that I don't have to change over. Now If I had a lot of 12/4 to rip that would be another story.
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus
I never thought I pay the price for a Forrest table saw blade until one day, with a little extra cash in my pocket, I ordered one. I have been really happy with it and ended up buying another. I also generally send them back to Forrest for sharpening and they come back like new. No regrets here, highly recommended.
Forrest and Freud both have some excellent blades. Both offer multiple models, but it's important to note that Freud has multiple lines as well. Their Premier and Industrial lines tend to include most of their best blades.
Blade selection is very much proprietary to your saw and what you cut. The philosophies about which direction to head range from task specific blades that will perform very well in a narrow operating range, to more of a "do-all" general purpose blade that will give good results in most applications but excel at none. Both philosophies have merit depending on the situation, your preference, budget, and cutting objectives. A decent purebred 60-80 tooth crosscut blade will certainly make cleaner crosscuts than a 30, 40 or 50 tooth general purpose blade of comparable quality. Inversely, a 24 tooth bulk ripper will certainly be more efficient at ripping thick material than the general purpose (GP) style blade. The key to being “better” depends on how you define that term. Better performance characteristics in one aspect of cutting doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a better choice overall. Consider both sides of the equation before making a decision. Taking the approach of using task specific blades requires owning at least two blades that each excel in a limited operating region, and are typically unacceptable for tasks outside of their intended scope. They also require blade changes for each different task for optimum results. Two task-specific blades (typically a 24T ripper and an 80T crosscutter) will generally stay sharp longer than a single general purpose blade because they share the work load, but cost more upfront and will also cost more to re-sharpen when the time comes. A general purpose blade will neither rip as efficiently as a true rip blade nor crosscut as cleanly as a dedicated crosscut blade, but you may find that it’s more than acceptable at doing both tasks for most situations. A valid argument in favor of using one high quality general purpose blade is that the GP blade leaves a cleaner edge than the rip blade, crosscuts faster than a crosscut blade, and does so with the convenience and cost of using one blade. If you happen to do a lot of specialty cutting of fine veneered plywoods, veneers, melamine, MDF, plastics, etc., a blade made specifically for these materials is definitely recommended. If you tend to rip very thick dense materials regularly, then a dedicated ripping blade is a wise choice for you right from the start.
I've had excellent blades from Infinity, Forrest, Freud, DeWalt's best, Amana Tool, Tenryu, Ridge Carbide, Leitz, and CMT. The Freud P410 Fusion is a 40T Hi-ATB design, vs the Forrest WWII 40T standard ATB blade. The Hi-ATB grind of the Fusion (and Infinity Super General) offers cleaner crosscuts and better sheetgood performance, but isn't quite as efficient at ripping. The Ridge Carbide TS2000 is very comparable to the 40T WWII, and has larger carbide.
Edited 7/16/2009 1:02 pm ET by Knotscott
Forrest, hands down.
I took your advise and purchased a Forrest at http://www.forrestbladesonline.com
Got a good deal...10"-40, thin kerf, stiffener ring and shipping for $123.00
Can't comment on the Freud, I have the Woodworker II 40 tooth for my table saw and the Chopmaster 80 tooth for my 12" SCMS, they both give excellent results.
Mike
Pair of WWII 40t (so one can go for sharpening); one WWII 30t for thick stock ripping; 8" dado set; 80t panel blade; 80t CMS blade. Could not be happier. I only have them sharpened by Forrest. When I upgraded from 10" to 12" CMS, I told a friend "you can have the CMS for free. The blade is $100." He did not understand and passed. That blade is still sitting here - use it occasionally for fine cross-cut work on the table saw.
I realize that is a lot of $$, but I figured I'd do it once, do it right. Would not change a thing.
I would highly recommend a Tenryu Gold Metal GM-25540 blade. It is the best blade that I have ever used on my Unisaw. The kerf is .111" which is between thin kerf and full kerf. When the blade starts cutting wood you almost cannot tell that it is cutting wood. The blade cuts like a hot knife thru butter, leaves a very smooth cut and is extremely quiet when cutting. This blade was on my Unisaw 90% of the time as it is a good ripper also. I now have a Hammer slider and the Freud Fusion is my preferred blade, I might get the GM re-bored for use on the slider.
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