Forest Girl.. SYP work-bench top promise
I got the pictures you ask about in your e-mail, Jamie. Not much to show as it’s just a southern yellow pine top to replace the worn out top I have been using for 6 years. It was still flat.. but had so much bondo in the top my wife and friends complained of how ratty it looked.. Picky.. picky.. picky.. but I decided to build one of SYP which makes #6 from that material just to shut em up.
My recovered Doug fir beam base will last forever… simply bought the SYP for $19 last Friday with a new $6 bottle of glue. Ripped.. jointed and glued through Saturday and changed vises out on Sunday. I did add a high-tech anti-saw-dust-grit-grime device to my twin screws on my Veritas. Got tired of the slow action when they muck up from grit that floats around and attracts to the lubricant. Included a pick of that $2 high tech device.
I also will show a picture of how I attach tops. Another high tech idea I learned from Ian Kirby years ago that allows the top to come off in 2 seconds if you decide to move the bench. Note the 4 bullet dowels on top of the legs when the top is off. There are 4 holes drilled underneath the top that correspond. The 100 lb. + top just stays on from gravity and those 4 coned dowels won’t allow shift from heavy racking as in hand planing. Maybe someone might benefit from that? Maybe not.
She’s flat.. cheap and ready to nail batten’s on top for stops… frankly I prefer that method over dog stops. And I will probably have a few nail holes and dents in it by night-fall. Scars adds character and I hate to wear a suit if it doesn’t have a few ketshup stains on it. My lovely said that adds character also. Or maybe.. she said I was a character? I can’t quite remember! :>)
Regards…
Sarge..
Edited 5/7/2008 12:57 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Replies
Opps.. duplicate 7..
HaHa...that dustkeeperoffer for your tail vice screw really is high-tech, huh? :^))Harry
Following the path of least resistance makes rivers and men crooked.
Someone today pointed out what they thought was two pieces of cheap PVC pipe sheilding my acme threaded screws. I quickly corrected them with the fact that it was special "space age" technology material originally designed to keep dust off components of a space capsule.
They asked me how I got it? My usual way of course.. I constantly check the dumpsters behind the space age technology facilities looked for throw-away stuff I can put to use here on earth. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Very nice Sarge. So, just SYP 2 x 4's that you joint and glue up? I like it. I built my bench base from doug fir too. My top is more expensive than yours but works well--three layers of MDF. Flat and heavy. My bench doesn't even come close to wiggling when I plane. I like the idea of being able to take the top off to move the bench. The 4 dowels just sit in corresponding mortises in the top and it's a gravity hold? I'm inspired to do this for my next bench top. Thanks. Tom
I actually use 2 x 8's I hand pick, Tom. I look for relatively dry (I take a pin type moisture meter as I do at my hard-wood supplier) and I look for straight on the shelf with the pith almost dead center. The edges get ripped off.. then I cut to 3" from that edge toward pith. The pith becomes waste and is thrown in the trash. That leaves me with quarter and rift saw by nature of the way it was sliced and diced.
MDF is supposedly .004 flat off the shelf and I have found no evidence to dispute that.. so it works fine also. I use it on my assembly tables for that reason. There are a lot of options that are much cheaper than the maple and beech that work just as well. I have built over 20 benches over the past 36 years. Some maple.. some laminated ply.. MDF.. and pecan that comes to mind. But all the wood ones have something in common. They are going to need to be flattened eventually.
That leads me to believe that a cheaper top that I can replace in two to three days labor for under $25 is as good an option as any. I think people don't realize just how hard SYP pine becomes when thoroughly dry. Not maple or beech.. but a lot cheaper to use and maintain.
My Doug fir came from a single beam from a torn down civil war warehouse here in Atlanta. I ripped it for use and re-laminated back once I decided I would use it for a base. That was around 15 years ago or so. And with the right joints.. no base should rack. I use bridles on the top cross stretchers and through MT's on the leg bases and length-wise stretchers. If you notice the addition of what I call a "whale-back" that runs the length on top and ties into the top cross stretchers.. Add a cross shelf on bottom rabbeted into the long stretchers and pinned with dowel and the base won't rack even before glue-up. That's a fact.
Yep.. just gravity and those 4 7/8" tall dowels shaped to a cone head. They keep it tight with side to side movement and gravity holds it down. Very convenient if you want to take the top off to move. I have built a few that were two separate 15" sections. In lieu of hand planing... just take it off and run the two sections through the 15" and up planer. Put it back on and back to work.
And the bottom line of any "work" bench to me is just that. Work... and not as a formal table to get Ooohs and Aaahs by guest. I have built nice benches for friends that can afford nice benches. Some of them probably don't have a scar to this day. But.. they look good and I think that was more of the original intent than getting down and dirty with work. Just my opinion of course.. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 5/7/2008 8:08 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 5/7/2008 8:10 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
SargeI hear ya. I don't think the wood we are working gives a hoot what it's sitting on. Took this Aggie a minute to figure out the cuts you were making with the 2x8's. Do you get 2 laminations from each 2x8? SYP that is dry is very hard, as is fir. I tore out a homemade 'nailed to the wall' doug fir work bench, and the 2x6's were hard as iron. Been baking in the Houston heat for 30 years. I reused some in my frame and made my son play blocks with the rest. Fir is so straight, it's a pleasure to work with. I'm filing this one away--got a feeling I'm going to come back to it. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Getting two from each board would be correct. I bought them in 12" lengths.. so by cross-cutting center I only needed 4 of 2 x 8 x 12's. But.. you really should always buy an extra. I ran into one that a portion had tension wood. It bowed to some degree and it would be easier to just go back and get another.
But my military field expediency kicked in and I went back to check my wood rack in the back shop. Had 3 2 x 4 x 12 premium grade spruce studs left over from a new deck last fall. This ole boy is to cheap to go back and pay $4 + for another in that situation. If you notice a whiter shade in the middle of the table.. that is the evidence of the 3 spruce studs I used. They were dead straight and dry when I used them and I don't expect any problem what-so-ever.
You think that Doug fir was hard after 30 years.. should have seen these 140 year old Doug beams. It was a chore re-sawing and ripping down when I got them. And then I had to re-laminate to get back to thick which I wasn't originally intending at the time.
And glad you got something out of this...
Regards...
Sarge..
Never Trust Gravity!Attached are photos of a bench (a sitting bench, not a workbench) I built when I was experimenting with furniture that could be "knocked- down" without tools. It is a variation on your workbench top for those of us with less faith in gravity. The top still removes easily and it also allows one to pick up the whole bench with the top attached if desired.instead of gluing the 1" dowels into the legs sticking up, I glued them into the bottom of the bench top, sticking down. I then drilled a 1/2" horizontal hole through the leg and through the 1" dowel (a picture is worth a thousand words here). By inserting a 1/2" dowel through the horizontal hole it pins the top to the legs. As you will see in the pictures a third dowel (1/4") through the end of the 1/2" dowel makes it easy to grab a hold of for dissassembly.The pictures also show how the horizontal trestle member slides apart from the legs.Jerry
But I do trust it, Jerry. I have used the method now on about 15 benches and none have had a problem nor is one expected. But... I would agree with you on not trusting it for a piece of furniture as you showed. The bench is over 100 lbs. and is subjected to side to side and end to end force. That cannot be said for a piece as a stool.. bench for sitting or IMO... even a table for eating.
If you have young kids or teens... expect tornadoes to pass through with much frequency. And some of us guys aren't too delicate either when the wife is not around. :>)
But.. I really think you method is very cleverly thought out for what it is used for. If you thought of it.. congrats as I will file that mentally if a break-down piece comes up.
Regards...
Sarge..
I've currently got a version of Mike Dunbar's workbench which is on the FWW site somewhere. It uses gravity too, but rectangular M & T instead of round. It's solid as a rock. Gravity works! The trestle-type legs are held together with bedbolts, so in theory the whole thing comes apart. I've never been tempted, though. I couldn't lift the top off without help. It's like yours meant for use, with two thirds of the top 3/4 ply, the rest a big chunk of maple.
Jim
I have thought of using rectangular also.. but the holes can be drilled in about 5 minutes and I find they work just as well. And besides... that's the way I learned from Ian Kirby and if it's good enough for him being old school.. it's good enough for me.
The one that came off is from 2 sheets of ripped ply I got at the Borg for $12 each as the veneer was torn up for commercial use. I just ripped them into 2 3/4" strips and face glued just like solid. Then I dropped a sheet of 3/4 inch on top and bordered the perimeter with maple.
I have built them in about every way imaginable and so far.. all have worked. I built one with 12" an under short once by finger gluing them. I had use of a cabinetmaker friends finger joint machine and did it just to see. I was told it would not work out. And it has been at my BIL's shop for about 10 years and the only wood top I have ever built that hasn't had to be re-flattened. Go figure!
That whale-back you see was originally added long ago so I could put two 14" sections together without the entire thing being glued. There were 8 bullet head dowels (1 on each corner and one on the center corner of each section where they met. It come off in two sections that could be just run through a 15" planer to flatten. That one is at a HS friends shop here in the Atlanta area.
Bottom line is a lot of things work well outside of tradition IMO.
Regards...
Sarge..
Thanks, Sarge, that's quite a beastie! So, have you applied for a patent for your high-tech dust-protection device?
I see no reason for a patent.. too many lawyers that are hurdle jumpers and besides... I'm getting old and you can't take it with you. Might as well just throw it up on the "all you can eat for free" buffet table and feed the world for a day or two. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
First of all, that's a fine looking bench. Now, I'm sure that your design has worked for you for years, but by theory, shouldn't there only be two pins to secure the benchtop in place, one at each end of the bench to allow the top to expand and contract? How thick is your top?
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Depends on who's theory I suppose, Chris. First.. the top is 3" thick as all my tops over the years have been. Now.. with that out of the way, the major portion of expansion is going to be on the width of the face and not end to end if I understand you correctly. You will get some expansion from end to end but in-significant compared to width which in the case of face glued is up and down.
To allow for end to end... the dowels have been shaped to cones which allows a tad of free play. You don't want much.. just a tad or maybe a tad and a half. But it is going to expand up and down or over the width of the face even at 3" thick. Not much.. but it will expand! That's why you will never see a top that doesn't have to be trued occasionally with a hand plane.. etc. How often depends on your individual climate.. humidity.. etc.
You will never defeat the fact that wood is going to move.. so I don't get too excited and try to over-think that. I trued this one after glue up in about 30 minutes with a hand plane.. If I wanted to use my 20" planer.. I could rip it in half and run two 14 sections through. Then re-glue.. But.. it's easier IMO to use the hand plane.
Regards...
Sarge..
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