Replies

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Feb 28, 2004 10:12pm | #1

   Rich ---

      All the fir in my local big boxes is construction lumber -- that is, it is green and wet.   To build cabinets, you really need dry lumber.   Wet lumber doesn't take finish, will shrink like crazy, and will likely warp.

      If you do have dry fir, it can make pretty furniture.   As a softwood, it will be more easily dinged than hardwood, but if your furniture is informal that will be okay.

      And yes, a countertop that is 40" wide and nearly 2" thick will support even a big TV.  However, you do have a little construction issue with putting a solid lumber top (even a dry one) on a plywood carcass: the lumber will grow and shrink annually, and the plywood will not.  Your joinery needs to deal with this.

1. 
   RichK | Feb 29, 2004 12:55am | #2

   Thanks, Jamie.  The fir at my local store is also construction grade but it's kiln dried, so is shrinkage less of an issue? 

   Great point about joining boards to plywood.  I'm planning to screw from the inside of the cabinet, up through the plywood cabinet top, and into the bottom side of the fir top.  I'll need to add expansion holes in the plywood and use large head screws.  It never struck me that there would be an issue, but you are right.  Thanks!

   Rich

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Feb 29, 2004 03:47am | #3

   Rich --

   "Kiln-dried" means something different when applied to construction lumber than when applied to wood intended for furniture or interior trim. Hardwood suppliers dry the lumber down to the level that will be seen inside a home -- in the region of 8% or so. Kiln-dried studs are wetter -- something like 19%. That is, they'll still have some of the characteristics of green wood. If you have access to a moisture meter, you might check the lumber before you buy it.

   Jamie

2. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 29, 2004 04:37am | #4

   If the fir is sold as 5/4 and is quartersawn, it sounds like the same stuff we sold as CVG, clear vertical grain, decades ago when I worked at a lumberyard. It's meant for trim and molding, not framing lumber. If the store keeps it inside, it's probably pretty close to as dry as you want it to be.

   To make sure, when you get it home, cut a piece small enough to handle easily and weight it every few days. When the weight stops changing, the wood is in balance with your house or shop or wherever you've got it stacked.

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Feb 29, 2004 06:14pm | #5

   Rich

      The fir at my local HD (Atlanta) is usually very dry (10% to 12%) off the shelf. If you have handled a lot of fir, you can almost detect dry or wet by picking it up. A moisture meter will be a plus of you have one.

      If you do go the fir route, be careful when working the end grain and outer edges. It has the characteristics to splinter if you're not cautious of that. Otherwise the quarter sawn you refer to has excellent stablity IMO. I have recovered quater-sawn fir beams from old warehouses that had less the 1/2" warp over 30' long. Fir is a soft-wood, but it won't dent quite as easy as say pine, alder, bass-wood, etc.

      A hard durable finish on it will take you home if you are on a budget as I see it. As you know, we all view through things different eyes. Ain't life fun! ha.. ha...

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   scooter1 | Mar 01, 2004 01:37am | #6

   Fir splinters like crazy, but if you take your time, it will be OK. It also has very pronounced grain ridges which will take lots of sanding.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   RichK | Mar 01, 2004 07:41am | #7

   My thanks to all for your great responses.  I posted my question on 3 different ww forums, and the feedback here was far and away the best.  I hadn't been to this forum in a few years, and it sure has changed!

   I bought a few fir boards over the weekend.  I'm going to make a small Nantucket bench that I just saw in one of the ww mags to see how workable the wood is and how well it takes different finishes.  The suggestion to cut a small piece and weigh it every few days to gauge the moisture content was terrific (thanks, Uncle Dunc), and the heads-up on the challenges of smoothing the face grain probably saved me alot of time as well (thanks, Boris).

   I really appreciate all of the input.  Thanks!

   Rich

1. 
   scooter1 | Mar 01, 2004 08:29am | #8

   Home Depot has nice stain grade fir and decent poplar, so if you find nice clear, and I do mean clear, 1x stock, you are probably good to go. Their hardwood supply s u c k s.

   If you are using a router, take very small bites off the stock, like no more than a 16th on each pass. If you are still getting splintering, I make the last pass backwards, e.g., reverse the feed direction, and take off just a red (you know what) hair.

   Regards,

   Boris

   "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

4. 
   Telemike | Mar 01, 2004 09:22am | #9

   HD has construction grade doug fir and "finish" grade. The construction is a bunch of 2x4s and is only good for framing and firestarting, execpt for the occasional accidentally close grained board that is usable after stickering and air drying.

   The "finish" grade is not bad although you need to look at it board by board and be prepared to come back several times.

   Look for "straight grained" KD fir. Choose the closest grain (lots of rings per inch), avoid the "bullseye" (pith center), and allow it to aclimatize to your shop.

   Sand with hard backing because the rings alternate a thin strip of very hard wood with a thick strip of very soft wood.

   When sanding, wear leather gloves. This stuff splinters and the splinters are spears that can sink frighteningly deeply into your hand. If splinters separate from the wood, bend them out, use a shaving to put cyanoacrylate (CA or superglue) or PVA into the crack, and tape closed for an hour with masking tape.

   Good fir finishes to a beautiful orange brown with pronounced darker bold grain. It is beautiful.

   Since the soft part of the annual rings is, well, soft, it will never be good for applications with lots of wear, but it is an American wood of distinction and is quite beautiful.