Replies

1. 
   lwj2 | Sep 05, 2004 04:08pm | #1

   I'd go over it between every coat with a grey or white woven pad, instead of steel wool. Eliminates the chances of small particles of steel wool degrading your finish later on.  You need to rub out between each coat of finish with an oil finish to get good adhesion.

   That said, my personal preference is to use turps instead of mineral spirits. Either works, mineral spirits are less expensive, turps smells better.

   Leon Jester, Roanoke VA

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 05, 2004 04:45pm | #2

   Frank,

   Turpentine and mineral spirits are both thinners for oil-base finishes and either will work by itself. If you're going to thin a varnish (including polyurethane) for wipe-on application, you can use one thinner or the other and thin the finish around 50% (2 parts varnish to 1 part thinner).

   Give the stain plenty of time to dry before sealing (a few days?); Minwax seems to dry very slowly.

   For poly, use dewaxed shellac for the sealer in accordance with the manufacturer's guidelines to ensure proper adhesion.

   Remove dust nibs & raised wood fibers with very fine sandpaper; steel wool/synthetic steel wool doesn't level surface bumps, it only makes them smoother.

   Paul

   Furniture Finish Wizard

1. 
   Gretchen | Sep 05, 2004 09:14pm | #3

   for wipe-on application, you can use one thinner or the other and thin the finish around 50% (2 parts varnish to 1 part thinner).

   I don't believe that is a 50% dilution. One to one is a 50% dilution-one part varnish to one part thinner/diluent.  Yours is a 66/33 approximately.Gretchen

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 05, 2004 09:37pm | #4

   I'll admit I'm no math major, but I believe a 1:1 or 50/50 ratio is 100%.

   Either way, the varnish will be thin enough for wipe-on application and one mixture is thinner than the other.Paul

   Furniture Finish Wizard

1. 
   GHR | Sep 05, 2004 10:05pm | #5

   Both Paul and Gretchen are correct in their use of 50%.

   2:1 is thinned with 50% thinner relative to the varnish.

   1:1 is 50% thinner relative to the total.

   It does not realy matter. I have a quart can for thinned varnish. I pour in some varnish when it gets low. I pour in some thinner when it gets thick.

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 05, 2004 10:37pm | #6

   "It does not realy matter. I have a quart can for thinned varnish. I pour in some varnish when it gets low. I pour in some thinner when it gets thick.

   Good answer! View ImagePaul

   Furniture Finish Wizard

2. 
   Gretchen | Sep 05, 2004 10:45pm | #7

   but I believe a 1:1 or 50/50 ratio is 100%.

   That is correct but it isn't what you said.  You said 2 parts varnish + 1 Part thinner. That is a  3 part mixture--the varnish is 66% and the thinner is 33%. You can wipe this on but I think it might be a little thick.And what you said later is true--none of this has to be exactGretchen

1. 
   Biscardi | Sep 05, 2004 11:10pm | #8

   Thanks all.

   Sounds like 1/2 poly/ 1/2 turp I love the smell of turp. Rub between coats with 600 grit paper.

   I get the impression everyone agrees to sealing the stain with a 1 lb cut of white shellac.

   It is really hot and humid here. I am running the dehumidifier in the shop.

   Thanks all,

   Frank (near Cville, VA)

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 05, 2004 11:27pm | #9

   I think George cleared it up nicely.

   Paul

   Furniture Finish Wizard

3. 
   Biscardi | Sep 06, 2004 03:26am | #10

   Thanks Paul,

   I re read your post.

   Frank

3. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Sep 06, 2004 03:35am | #11

   I suggest you apply your proposed finish to a test board.  Then subject it to whatever conditions your friend thinks a dining table should withstand -- like a pool of water or oil or red wine overnight?   Depending on the owners, a dining table may get use which we wood folks wouldn't think of doing.   It is much better to discover issues before you do the whole big table.

1. 
   nikkiwood | Sep 06, 2004 07:48am | #12

   Someone earlier mentioned using dewaxed shellac to seal the stain. This is indeed crucial, particularly if you are going to use some sort of polyurethane product as a wipe-on finish. If you don't, the poly could partially dissolve the stain as you are wiping it on, which would result in a royal mess.

   I assume you know about Zinsser's SEAL COAT, which is a dewaxed shellac available from any paint store, and a growing number of home centers. It is already thinned out (a 2 lb. cut), but I would recommend thinning it even more with alcohol -- about 1 to 1.

4. 
   bill_1010 | Sep 07, 2004 05:25pm | #13

   First suggestion is dont use minwax.   Go to your sherwin williams store and ask for wood classics stain using the Minwax formula book.   They can match minwax stains and are a better stain.  Padding on the 1lb cut or brushing it will allow you to pop the grain and seal the wood.  If youre not wanting to pop the grain, use a varnish based sanding sealer 

   Id probably ditch the poly route.  YOull be happier with waterlox then poly.   If you decide to use plastic or even waterlox youll need more then 4 coats if its for a table top.  YOu can get by with less on the legs and apron.  

   All and all id recommend waterlox over poly any day of the week and twice on sunday.   If you have spray equipment like HVLP go with a conversion varnish.  Its extremely durable, and thats what you need on a table top. Poly  really wont give you a durable table top that looks good. 

1. 
   nikkiwood | Sep 08, 2004 07:59am | #14

   I would never say someone is flat wrong when it comes to a finishing question, but I do want to disagree with WmP.

   First, Minwax stains are really excellent products, and they are as "goof proof" as any stain on the market. If this is the kind of stain you want (a penetrating oil with some dye thrown in), I honestly don't think there is reason to look further -- particularly if that is what the table's owner has requested.

   Second, oil based polyurethane is absolutely the best, and most bullet-proof finish available for brush or wipe-on applications. Waterlox has its fans, but I have tried it two or three times, and it has just never worked very well for me.

   Conversely, if you are set up to spray the table, conversion varnish would be a good choice -- but only if you have had previous experience with this material.

   Finally, one more comment about dewaxed shellac sealers: Minwax applied to bare oak will "pop" or accentuate the grain patterns. You should use the sealer (on bare wood) only if you want to somewhat obscure the grain. A trial set of samples on any oak scrap will tell the tale.

   Also, if you decide to brush on your poly, you need not apply a sealer coat over the stain. But as I said in an earlier post here, if you do use a wipe on finish, then I think you would be well advised to seal it with a wash coat of shellac first.

   Edited 9/8/2004 1:03 am ET by nikkiwood