I’m about to finish my first maple piece, a large shadowbox-style display case. I want to even out the color on the various pieces, then stain (light-to-medium) and finish. I’d love some advice — what dye works best for you? Once I get the basic color of the wood evened out across the pieces, what’s the best way to stain? (a different dye? a pigment stain?) Any wash coats in this process??
This will be the first project I have not simply used a Danish oil finish with, so I’m a little lost. 🙂 Looking for a color that shows well with Seahawk Blue
TIA!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
Hi,
As you have no replies yet, Fww #135 has an article by Jeff Jewitt about finishing curly maple.
Also FWW #163
and FWW #148 Jeff Jewitt on matching finishes.
I will be interested to learn what others may say about this.
Ken
Thanks, Ken, those'll keep me busy! The #135 article is what I (vaguely) had in mind, I think. This wood isn't figured in the usual sense of the word, though it has a little here and there -- the shadowbox shape doesn't really justify the cost, and I didn't want to draw attention from the jersey being displayed. Still, that article will help sort out the steps.
#163 uses dyed shellac and, later, glaze. Hoping to not get quite that complicated for this piece. However, a small side table is next on the list, and that article will be very useful there.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi FG,
Maple is one of those species that gets blotchy. An easy way is to use a wood conditioner before staining. I don't think using a dye is necessary unless you want to. Dyes take differently and don't work as well with a wash coat. I'll often use Minwax wood conditioner followed by a couple of coats of an oil based stain. If you apply the stain with a rag, you have a bit more control over blending for an even color. Some like a wash coat of thin shellac but you can easily put too much on and the shellac can be fast drying. Water dyes raise the grain and alcohol dyes are difficult due to their fast drying. Less of a problem on small surfaces. Being able to tint top coats or use toners is best done with spray equipment. I think a low gloss top coat works well for frames. It eliminates glaring light reflection. Something simple like Minwax antique oil would be a good choice. locally available and easy to use, inexpensive. If you want a bit more "wow" buff it out lightly with #0000 steel wool and put on a thin coat of paste wax, buffed with a T shirt.
You can get more complicated using secret formulas, black magic and other proceedures that hobyists are drawn to but you'll only spend more time, money and frustration. You see all the " I did so and so and now what do I do" questions on this forum. Don't join their ranks. Keep it simple and repeatable.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
here ya go fg..check this site out they can make any color ya want. even in poly
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com/enduro_water_base_coatings/waterbase_stains_colors.htm
Hi Hammer, thanks. The main reason I bring up using a dye is that a couple of the maple pieces are noticeably lighter than the rest and I was going to use a dye to even them out before proceeding to the rest of the finishing. Thoughts?
PS: What oil-based stain do you prefer?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 12/12/2005 12:54 pm by forestgirl
Hey FG :-)
I noticed that you didn't really say what color you want the Maple to be other than something that would look good with SeaHawk Blue (go Hawks!).
Using dye to even out the color of wood is a commonly accepted practice. Usually a light washcoat is applied over the dye to "lock it in" so that the subsequent stain's solvents don't cause it to get wiped out or otherwise diluted... which would obviously work counter to the point of having dyed the wood in the first place. If you're planning on dyeing certain pieces and not others, I would recommend applying the same amount of washcoat to all of the pieces if you're planning on using a wipe stain over it. That way the wipe stain will color evenly piece to piece.
Where you go from there really depends on what color you want. A gel stain over the washcoat is a very simple, easy way to go. It just depends on what you want to see when it's all done.
Hi, Kevin, yes go Hawks! Wow!
I may have to forgo the dye thing at this point. I was going to go over to Seattle and get some at Woodcraft or Rockler, but ended up spending that time, and more, driving to Ocean Shores (Wow, a lonnnnnng ways away) to pick up the pellet stove I bought from Brian/"Migraine" No time left for trips! I have a lot of scraps left from this, so I'll play around and find something that works using what I have.
It sucks having to go to Seattle for stuff that I actually need to lay eyes on before buying, but a small price to pay for sanity (living in the country).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG
Last shadowbox I made with maple, I used shellac and mixed alcohol-soluble dye into the shellac. If it had figure, I would have used dye on the wood first, then shellac. I don't think pigment works very good on maple.
I'm using a Varathane stain, Golden Pecan, which is just a smidge darker than the natural wood. All of the darker stains looked awful, even with 2 washcoats of shellac. I might experiment with adding some universal colorant to the shellac for the top coat. Thanks!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
"It sucks having to go to Seattle for stuff that I actually need to lay eyes on before buying, but a small price to pay for sanity (living in the country)."
I have 3 Orange and 2 Blue big box stores within 15 minutes from home. It takes me 3 trips for any plumbing related project. I can't see how I'd survive in the country unless I did it without indoor plumbing.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Big Box stores are no problem -- Home Depot and Lowe's within easy driving distance. Ace in town (3 minutes from my house). It's the woodworking speciality stuff that involves the ferry ride. There's even a real live tool place down the road, between us and the next town on the peninsula -- they sell Jet, Delta, Powermatic and some Shop Fox!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
FG,
I don't know what you're complaining about! There are (were?) at least a couple specialty places to go to in Seattle, plus a great gallery down in Pioneer Square.
I live now (unfortunately) in the most densely populated state, across the bay from NYC, and yet there is NO woodworking specialty store within a 90 minute drive (nor a decent WW gallery). I'd gladly be in your shoes, where I could take the Winslow Ferry over to the Wooden Boat Shop, or other WW store. It would be faster than my trip out here (unless the Ferry ran aground off Eagle point again).
;-)Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Is Garrett Wade still in NYC?
I know there's at least one other place I buy from online that's in the tri-state area - but I have no idea how long it would take to get there from where you live.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
No, they've left NYC and moved down to sunny Florida. They would have been a trip even though from a map it looks like I live "close:" at least three bridges or tunnels to get there and the same coming back. $7 bridge tolls these days, too.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
As far as I know Garrett Wade is still at their NYC address. That's what their website shows and I was there a little over a month ago.
I know you said it's a pain to get into NYC but there's also Tools For Working Wood on West 20th St in Manhattan.
Rosenzweig Lumber in the Bronx has a decent hardwood selection. And there are plenty of great lumber suppliers in eastern PA.
I think it is Constantine's that moved to Florida (or consolidated the entire business into the Florida location.)
Right - Constantines. Got it mixed up with Garrett Wade. I've been to Constantines (years ago), but GW only by internet.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Yes, there are two places I can go: Rockler (yuck) and Woodcraft. Granted, compared to your situation, it's heaven, but ferry ticket prices have gone through the roof (would someone please put Tim Eyeman out of our misery!) and I can't get a trip to Seattle done in less than 4 hours -- and that's a "no fun, no lunch, no browsing" trip. So, unless I can come up with a healthy list of things I need, I don't go.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
<Being able to tint top coats or use toners is best done with spray equipment. I think a low gloss top coat works well for frames. It eliminates glaring light reflection.>I prefer tinting topcoats for maple. Universal colorant in lacquer or CV is my preferred. I always topcoat then with low sheen or (medium rubbed CV) for the fact that tints can sometimes change the sheen and I dont like the glossy look either. aloha, mike
FG,
I've made shadowboxes using shellac only as a finish, and they turned out fine. The client didn't want any color other than the frame color (in this case, from paduak).
I am doing a project now where I am highlighting grain using potassium permanganate as a stain/dye; it turns the wood a blueish green, sort of like lignum vitae. You might compare it to other options; the permanganate staining is permanent and, based on other pieces I've played with, pretty light-fast.
Colored shellac is the other way I would go. The thing is, I pad the maple with shellac before any assembly or joint-making. If you are wrapping up your project, it may be too late to do this easily. You can spray shellac, but in my hands the surface seems a little pebbled, in contrast to the mirror smooth finish I get when padding.
Photos phollow. Shots are (1) two boxes side by side (detail), showing shellacked and unshellacked backs. Backs are English Sycamore, which is really a maple and looks like it. (2) Two boxes in different orientations so you can see the figure quality in the walls and the back. (3) Shot of many CM strips in the process of being shellacked. (4) close up of (3); the strips were buffed using #0000 to reduce the gloss and even the finish.
Good luck and have a happy holiday.
Thanks so much for the info and pics! I'm still absorbing all the info. Turned out they went out of town for Christmas and didn't really care about getting the case by then. Will be finishing it during the following week or so.
Dumb mistake was gluing it up before I put the rabbets in for the back. Sheesh!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi, Jamie
Since you've already gotten good advice on the maple, alls I can tell you is that when the Bears get through with the Seahawks in the playoffs, you're gonna need some Ebony Black to go with that Seahawk Blue!!! That's all that will be left, bruises!!!!!
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Merry Christmas,
Jeff
She who laughs last, laughs best! Too funny! You in trouble, dude!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I just made a giant mistake with Minwax "Golden Oak" which I put on soft maple. My project came out with brown streaks -- and maple doesn't have brown streaks -- it didn't look natural. The mistake happened because I didn't test it first. And I couldn't sand the stain off. But I learned a lesson: always test first on scrap wood to find out how it will look. The stain went deep into the wood. I shouldn't have used stain at all -- maple looks great without stain. But I learned a lesson. The maple cost $40 and it took about a week to make the step stool.
i'm in the same boat...about to finish a coffee table i made with some really beautiful curly maple with wenge trim and base...
jeff jewitt's article suggests water based aniline dye followed by boiled linseed oil then top coat (clear) of your choice...
i would be interested to know if anyone has used tung oil instead of boiled linseed oil??
thanks and good luck...
matt
Can't help you with the BLO vs. Tung Oil question, but I will suggest you start a thread, it would be very interesting to hear what folks have to say. e.g., "Tung oil vs. BLO for maple???" forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
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