Replies

1. 
   Hastings | Mar 01, 2008 02:31am | #1

   Tommy:

   Please so not use all caps. Not only is very difficult to read, it is the net equivalent of shouting.

   The conventional wisdom is that shellac should not be used in bathrooms and kitchens because of the water and humidity. Frenchy might disagree and plans to use shellac in his kitchen.

   I recently completed a vanity with granite top and I finished it in CAB acrylic lacquer. I like spraying these quick dry finishes because you can do it outside, thereby obviating the need for explosion-proof fans and other paraphernalia. Spraying is fun and not hard - just takes a little practice. For clear, I use a two-part lacquer all from Sherwin-Williams.

   Regards,

   Hastings

2. 
   frenchy | Mar 01, 2008 03:51am | #2

   tommyfishes,

    I'll make it simple.. go to your local big box store (Home Depot, Lowes etc)  buy a quart of Zinssers blonde shellac Called Bulls eye..  It's a yellow can white band..

     Buy two quarts of denatured alcohol.  Not thinner or anything else denatured alcohol..

   Mix them up and when you apply it   with your paint brush flood it on.  Don't try to be neat because shellac dries too fast for neat.. flood it on and never go back over if you should miss a spot! Let it go.. now let it dry for 15 minutes and take a 220 sanding block or one of those 3M sanding sponges and sand off the nubs that get raised..

    This is real lick and promise type sanding.. careful not to oversand the corners.  and don't waste time trying to "fix" any goofs in your painting. The next coat will melt into the last coat and ruin all your efforts. so sand the nubs off and let it go..

     I know this seems scary but it works well even if you aren't a great painter..

     (By the way just let the paint brush dry out, don't bother to clean it,, the next time you use it let is sit for a few minutes in the mix and the stiffness will melt away.

     OK flood on the second coat but again don't go back over and "fix things"  shellac dries too fast to allow that and you will make a mess..

    This coat will take a 1/2 hour to dry.. then flood on the third and final coat..

     The rest is up to you.. if you want you can sand or polish or whatever this..

     But doesn't shellac just make black walnut POP?  and look at the color shellac brings out!

3. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 01, 2008 05:17am | #3

   An ititial coat or two of shellac, followed by a wipe on varnish gives a very good look for walnut.  Shellac can be had in two forms: flakes and liquid.  The mix it your self flakes are good because you know the shellac is fresh.  A good source for shellac is http://www.homesteadfinishing.com.  They have a wide variety with good color "charts" to help you choose.  Shellac is the best finish at retarding moisture vapor transfer to wood, considerably better, for equivalent mil thicknesses than varnish.  There is no need to overthin the shellac a 1 1/2 pound cut pads on easily.  And if you brush (use a soft bristle) 2 lb. cut usually handles OK. 

   Despite what Frenchy says shellac does not make a wonderful finish for bathroom vanities.  There are too many household chemicals around and many people have an urge to seriously clean bathrooms. While shellac resists liquid water better than most people think, the first time someone uses a cleaner with ammonia or other alkalai cleaner it could be toast.  Ammonia is a true solvent for shellac

   Over the shellac I recommend a wiping varnish.  You can mix this your self from a brushing strength varnish by adding thinner.  Behlen Rockhard is excellent, as is McCloskey Heirloom (soon to be replaced by Cabot Varnish (not Cabot Polyurethane).  You can also buy a good wiping varnish from Waterlox.  Either the Satin (which may want a little thinning) or Original/Sealer (which comes sufficiently thinned) works very well. 

   Notice that I omitted polyurethane varnishes.  There is no need for polyurethane varnishes for furniture--it's principal benefit is abrasion resistance, making it great for floors but unnecessary for furniture.   

4. 
   frenchy | Mar 01, 2008 05:21pm | #4

   tommyfishes,

     Steve and I differ in our approach to shellac. I like premixed shellac because it's easy and fool proof. Plus it's a lot less expensive. 

     Steve has mastered the art of brushing shellac.  My approach of flooding it on quickly is different from his and he has trouble accepting that there can be a different way to do things..Steve prefers his method of grinding flakes and mixing them with denatured alcohol.  That's fine if you know and understand all the little tricks and have the equipment to do so.

    Several here have used my technique and been happy with the results..  I'm not hung up on what method you use to get shellac on.. to me it's a tiny point.. use whatever you are comfortable with..

   The wonderful thing about shellac is that if you don't like the results simply take some denatured alcohol and  wipe it off and try another way.  You'll find your way quickly.  Shellac is so forgiving it even tolerates a klutze like me.  If you have great burshing skills then by all means follow Steve's method of application..  If your brushing techniques haven't produced satisfactory finishes try my approach..

      As for the boogyman of household finishes.  Shellac will tolerate a lot of  household finishes.  However ammonia based finishes will damage the finish..  

     So don't use ammonia based cleaners.. there are plenty of household cleaners that say Ammonia free.. Use those!

    I mean you wouldn't wash your dishes with sandpaper, so don't wash the vanity with ammonia..

5. 
   ctsjr | Mar 02, 2008 03:58am | #5

   Just to add to what Frenchy has already said: Zinser puts a manufacture date on the bottom of their cans, so you can make sure you get a fresh can. The turnover is pretty good in my area--when I finished my black walnut table, the shellac I bought was around 6 months out from the date on the can. I used amber shellac, which is the Zinser equivalent of orange shellac. 3 coats of a one lb. cut did the trick. Rub it out with 0000 steel wool, put a coat of wax on, buff it out, and voila! Good luck. Frenchy's encouragement got me to try the shellac and it's my favorite finish now. Tom

   "Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
6. 
   blewcrowe | Mar 04, 2008 09:50pm | #6

   I'd go against shellac. It's not good around standing water. Take a hard look at Waterlox finishes. Applied to the proper depth, and cured, they are imperious to water and just about any harsh chemicals. They're also easy to apply evenly.

1. 
   frenchy | Mar 04, 2008 11:44pm | #7

   blewcrowe,

     But it's a vanity right?  that's the cabinet above the sink.. shouldn't be in standing water.   If it is you've got more problems than what type of finish it's done with  <grin> 

     ps. unlike the myth shellac once it gets really hard  (about 30 days) can have water laying on it for hours without turning white.. At least that's my experiance with Zinssers Bulls Eye.

   Edited 3/4/2008 3:45 pm ET by frenchy

1. 
   blewcrowe | Mar 05, 2008 12:46am | #8

   I don't know, sir. What we call a vanity in these parts is like a floor cabinet in a bathroom that houses the water basin.

   As to shellac withstanding water, I dunno. I've always read that shellac wouldn't take it, but maybe these new formulations will.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 05, 2008 04:11am | #9

   The formulations haven't changed all that much for a century or so.  Dewaxed shellac is more water resistant than shellac with wax.  High grade shellac (Kusmi for example) hasn't had much wax anyway for quite a long time.  You can leave a glass of icewater on a shellac table top and come back for it a couple of hours later with very little risk of any damage.  Any damage that might occur in such a situation could be repaired in a couple of minutes.  Water isn't really the problems it's the products that some people use to clean bathrooms that could be the risk for a vanity. 

1. 
   tommyfishes | Mar 06, 2008 09:05pm | #10

   Thank you and everyone for the responses.  I did do a sample piece and it has truly made a beleiver out of me. You guys were right it sure brightened up the piece. I also put 2 coats of wiping varnish on over the bulls eye amber to see the results with the added protection from all the cleaning agents that were metioned.

   I must say i am very pleased.  very good advise from everyone, Thanks