Replies

1. 
   RW | Nov 04, 2002 01:50am | #1

   Oh boy, on the list of "things to teach myself" you might try

   cutting accurate mortise & tenon joints, hand cutting dovetails, cutting accurate miters, rubbing out a finish, installing hinges & locks, sharpening, how to lay a smooth varnish coat, the list goes on. Or go get the book Good Wood Joints and look at the 100 or so examples and take a saturday at a time and try to accurately make every single one with scrap. As a self proclaimed newbie, your attitude is in the right place. Have fun, and listen to NPR.

2. 
   RSRose | Nov 04, 2002 02:08am | #2

   DW and RW,

   YES! Listening to NPR is very important. At low volume, of course, in the background. A necessary part of the woodshop ambience, often not mentioned in instruction books.

   DW, You should try ANYthing.

   Dovetail joints, of course.

   Mortise and tenon joints by hand and by machine. Pegged mortise and tenon, wedged mortise and tenon. Cutting mortises by hand with a real mortise chisel (one that's actually square in cross section - hard to come by any more -you might need to square it up yourself).

   Practice truing up your power equipment (table saw, jointer, bandsaw, whatever) by the self-referencing method of comparing the cut to itself which is twice as accurate as using a machinist's square. (If you're interested, I'll describe it).

   Practice making a 2 x 4 perfectly square with perfectly parallel faces and square, parallel ends.

   Practice cutting to length via measuring and marking vs using a stop block system. (Amazingly different results)

   Get "Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking," start at page 1 and just keep going. Or Ian Kirby's book (can't recall the title).

   In 20-30 years you just MAY stop calling yourself a novice. The learning never stops.

   Rich

1. 
   riverr1 | Nov 04, 2002 02:18am | #3

   Yep, Car Talk, This American Life, Garrison, What do you know, etc. Saturdays started with Saturday morning cartoons, then sports, now it's NPR. What's next?

   Don

2. 
   Marcello | Nov 04, 2002 09:38pm | #5

   "Practice truing up your power equipment (table saw, jointer, bandsaw, whatever) by the self-referencing method of comparing the cut to itself which is twice as accurate as using a machinist's square. (If you're interested, I'll describe it)."

   Rich:

   I am also a beginner to speak off, only been doing this for a little over 2 years.  I would be very interested in learning how to true up some of that equipment.  I could have used some of that yesterday when I ripped some 4/4 stock to dimension and found it was about 1 degree off perpendicual during dry fit - my square was off.  Do you have time to share?

1. 
   RSRose | Nov 05, 2002 12:36am | #6

   T,

   (what'e your name or nickname)

   The process is a basic skill that every woodworker or metalshop worker should learn. Actually, it's used in metal working all the time as one of the principle ways in assuring that a machinist's square is really square. It takes longer to describe it than to do it.

   I'll describe an example of the process on a table saw. It's only the PROCESS that you need to learn. It doesn't matter that I'm using a table saw as the example. You can then use the method exactly as described on the TS, modify it slightly for use on a radial arm saw, or use a little creativity and apply it to ANY tool that cuts an edge or surface that needs to be true to any other edge or surface.

   Start with two 12" x 12" sheets of 1/4" plywood. The thickness is not important, it's just convenient to use (or buy) some scraps of plywood to get started. The pieces do not need to be sqaure (they may or may not be to begin with). The only necessity is that they have one dependably straight edge, the "Reference Edge."

   If you have a metal straight edge that you KNOW is straight, and you're satisfied that it's telling you that you have a Reference Edge on one side of each of the 12 x 12s, skip the steps below on creating a Reference Edge.

   (If you want to know how to tell if a metal straight edge is REALLY straight, that's another message posting. Just ask. It's a variation of the present process)

   It's easy enough to get a Reference Edge. Set your rip fence as accurately as possible, parallel to a miter slot in the saw table, and adjust the saw blade's parallelism as close as you can to the miter slot. There are several ways to adjust the blade to within about 1/32" of accuracy, which is close enough. If you're very careful, you can actually do much better than that with nothing but a simple jig that firmly rides in the miter slot and indexes off the same tooth on the blade from the beginning point of cut to the end of the cut (rotate the blade to reference the same tooth at both points). Make sure the saw is unplugged when doing this, PLEASE!

   Then carefully rip a small bite off one edge of the 12 x 12 plywood. That edge will be the Reference Edge. Mark the Reference Edge.

   The next step is the actual test cut and can be done by cutting each 12 x 12 individually, or by stacking one on the other and cutting them together. The test determines the 90° setting of the saw's miter gauge or that of a cross-cutting sled, whichever you're using.

   Hold the 12 x 12 reference edge(s) firmly against the miter gauge fence or the back fence of the sled and saw the adjoining edge. Don't let the 12 x 12s shift position against the fence during the cut. That is, work slowly and carefully. As accurately as possible.

   The newly sawed edge (Edge 2) will be either: exactly at 90° to the Reference Edge, less than 90° to the Reference Edge or greater than 90° to the Reference Edge. There are no other possibilities.

   Firmly hold the Reference Edges of both pieces down on the saw table (which we'll assume is a Reference Flat Surface) and bring their cut edges (Edge 2) together. This requires that you flip ONE piece so that the surface that was toward you during the cut is now away from you. The Edge 2 edges will either perfectly meet all along their lengths or there will be a gap at the bottom (against the saw table) or at the top.

   Examine how the two Edge 2 edges meet very carefully with a light behind them. It is possible to detect even the most minute amount of deviation. Those two edges will perfectly fit IF AND ONLY IF the test cut was at 90°. If a gap shows, you are looking at an angle that's twice the deviation of the saw cut (the deviation in each cut contributes to the gap).

   If there's a gap, adjust the fence of the miter gauge or sled, cut again and check for the gap. When there is no gap, you have set your fence more accurately than you could using a square.

   You can even increase the accuracy to 4 times the cut deviation. After making the first cut, use Edge 2 as the reference edge, creating cut Edge 3. Then use Edge 3 as the reference edge, creating cut Edge 4. Now hold the Edge 4 edges on the saw table and bring the original Reference Edges together. Any gap is 4 times the cut deviation.

   Rich

   Edited 11/4/2002 4:41:09 PM ET by Rich Rose

1. 
   Marcello | Nov 05, 2002 02:48am | #7

   Thanks Rich, I'll give it a shot tonight.

   Marcello (that is my name)

3. 
   JamesC67 | Nov 04, 2002 03:38am | #4

   Janet,

   I've been a Carpenter/ Woodworker for a little over 25years now and the main things I'd like to suggest is no matter how long you've been woodworking your never to old to learn new tricks.  Also the most important thing in my case is experience or practice,practice,practice and if your building somthing with a lot of peices it doesn't take a whole lot more time to make a practice peice that  you can do all your setting up your equipment on. this way if you destroy the scrap peice in the set up faze you wont have ruined the peice you want to use on your project.

   Oh yes I almost forgot I've seen on several forums many frustrated peolpe who think by wathing woodworking shows that this will make them a Master Woodworker/Carpenter  I've read where statements were made that they could not understand how T.V Woodworkers projects only take a half an hour they never seemed to make any mistakes well  alls I can say is I wish all my projects were able to be Edited so I would'nt of had to made all the mistakes. Don't we all wish our projects had an Edit button? ? ?

   And I'd like to pass on one more thing that was my Granddads favorite saying:THERES A LOT MORE TO IT THAN JUST TALKING ABOUT IT.

   Well Janet if you run into any problems that you think you maybe over your head on just log on to any one of the several woodworking forums on the web and I'm sure there will be somone that would be happy to give you a hand me included.

   Good luck and Happy Woodworking,

   JIM CLARK

   the"PUTTERIN YANKEE"woodworking shop ;the place I keep all my big boy toys  

4. 
   DWRead | Nov 05, 2002 04:42am | #8

   Is it better to make finger joints on a tablesaw, or with a router?

1. 
   JamesC67 | Nov 05, 2002 05:29am | #9

   Well personally I like my table saw better for me I get a broader range of pin sizes by using a good quality Dado blade I personally use a "8 stack dado set from Freud and I also make sure to keep the blades and chippers good and sharp. Also with a dado set I don't have to have several different sizes like with router bits. But just becouse my tablesaw is best for me doesn't mean your Router won't be best for you it's really what ever you prefer and feel most comfortable with. But this is just my oppinion and you know what they say about them ...................Thanks for allowing my $0.02 worth

      JIM CLARK

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 05, 2002 10:37am | #10

   Janet

      i prefer the TS with a finger jig mounted to a mitre gauge and dadoes. If you don't have dadoes yet as I suspect, the router is the ticket.

   Good luck and try to have all the things Rich and RW mentioned perfected by next week-end. There will be a pop-quiz...grin<>

   sarge..jt