This is an age old problem, but a problem nonetheless. I am currently completing a custom trim job for the owner of Waterlox. The master bed and bath are trimmed with 1×4 clear pine with a true 1×6 header trim. There are two pine beams and a knotty pine ceiling.
So, here’s my problem. The customer is using his sealer/finisher without any stain. He wants me to fill all the nail holes so they will not be seen at all. Waterlox is a clear tung oil finish being applied to white pine.
The glue/sawdust trick doesn’t work because the glue compromises the ability of the sawdust to accept the tung oil. No putty/filler/whatever will match the pine.
I’ve attached a couple of photos of my progress/dilemma.
Any suggestions?
Edited 12/25/2008 8:27 am ET by rodnog
Edited 12/25/2008 8:28 am ET by rodnog
Replies
rodnog,
Might be to late now that all the trim is up, but this looks like a neat device.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32683&cat=1,41182
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
I have used the softwaxs which are mixable. And they are nice in that they are used after the finish is applied.
http://eagleamerica.com/softwax-wax-filler-system-kit/p/443-2100/
Problem is that whatever you use will not darken with age as the pine will.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Rod:
The owner's requirements preclude the use of nails. The veritas approach will work on flat surfaces, but I wonder how it will do on smaller pieces as well as curved molding.
Why don't you consider hot-melt glue?:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=6576
I have just acquired this to attach molding where I do not want any nail or pin holes.
Regards,
Hastings
PS Sorry, didn't see that you have already installed the molding. Maybe this will be useful to you in the future.
Edited 12/25/2008 10:12 am ET by Hastings
Get the first coat of finish on. Use painter's putty or glazing compound tented with universal tenting colors from a local paint supplier. I would guess the four colors you'll need are raw umber, burnt umber, raw sienna and burnt sienna. I suggest you try for a slightly darker color of the same tent with your putty and for slightly more yellow on the light pine, this allows for color change when aging. You don't have to mix a bunch of colors two, three or four will be fine.
On edit, I thought I should add more. Mix your putty in globs about the size of a golf ball, a little putty goes a long ways. Add the color in very small amounts, about what you can transfer with a tooth pick. Any color you get on your hands will contaminate everything, disposable rubber gloves can be handy. If you get the color a little too dark, add a little more putty. If the putty or glazing compound is too gooey to easily work with, spread it out on card board which will absorb excess oil. I've been told that artist's oil colors work well too but I've never used them because my local paint supplier always gave me small amounts of universal tenting colors. You don't need to buy the big containers of color, get the smallest amount you can.
Edited 12/25/2008 10:51 am by lwilliams
rodnog ,
Look for a product called color putty or soft putty , there is a wide range of colors and you can mix them . You can use it in between coats or after your last coat is dry .
dusty
Color Putty is a good product but I've never been able to get a close match to pine with the colors I can get locally, even when mixing colors. Perhaps other places have a wider choice of colors.
Edited 12/25/2008 11:43 am by lwilliams
Hi Larry ,
Typically and normally I fill any holes with solvent based putty , I use the Famowood brand then sand before finish , now that's in the shop or un finished . On the job if it's already finished before I nail it up I then use color putty .
Famowood Ash flavor is a dead ringer for Maple with a clear finish and some Pine is White and some Yellowish and all between . You can mix the color putty and get a bit closer . With Cherry I use a darker Mahogany color so in time as the Mellowing occurs the putty will not scream a lighter color stand out look .
Best wishes
dusty
Famowood is what I used on some of the trial trim. It looks great when it's sanded, but when you hit it with the tung oil it looks like zit in the middle of your forehead.
I also tried the non-hardening putty without much luck on the color matching.
Thanks for the help so far. I am also going to try the dry putty mix with some Waterlox. The only problem with this, that I can foresee, is that Waterlox turns a deeper amber color the more coats you apply. And who knows how many coats he is going to put on.
So far this product, Waterlox, has been nothing but a pain in the a**.
First, Waterlox Original/Sealer isn't tung oil, it is varnish MADE from tung oil and phenolic resin. It's a film finish, not a penetrating oil finish, though as with any varnish a first coat, (or two) will penetrate quite a bit, especially since it the O/S has relatively low solids content.
I'd say your best chance of getting totally invisible nail holes would be to use a translucent burn in stick, if you aren't satisfied with the simpler wax or putty fillers. Make some samples to let the client choose. Price the burn in stick method considerably higher, however, because it will take you a lot longer.
Edited 12/25/2008 2:14 pm ET by SteveSchoene
Hi Steve ,
Not sure if using a burn in stick on a ceiling would be very user friendly ,or the best application for an otherwise great method .
regards dusty
Scratch that idea, sorry. But on a ceiling you should be able to get a satisfactory match from the wax sticks, since not many will be able to have a close up view. Would tongue and groove have allowed all but a tiny number of nails to be hidden, just like on a floor?
Edited 12/25/2008 10:05 pm ET by SteveSchoene
Actually, the ceiling was the least of my worries. There are no nail holes showing. The framing was horrid--I mean "horrid". Not one window jamb was even with the drywall or vice versa. One corner was an 1/8 or more in and the other was an 1/8 or more out. Smashing drywall when I was using 1x4 and true 1x6 became more of a problem than it was worth. I used a 16 ga. finish nailer and still had to drive a 10d finishing nail into the trim just to pull it close to the jamb.
It has become one of those jobs from he**. I've even inlaid knots into the beams because I had to drive 4" screws into the beam/posts just to hold them in place.
I guess it comes down to the fact that heavy trim has to be held in place by something. I've done close to 400 lineal feet of trim, so we're we're not talking about a couple of nails.
I'll keep trying. Thanks for your help.
Edited 12/25/2008 10:56 pm ET by rodnog
maybe I am missing something here but you can usually mix the putty to match just about anything. For instance, take pine colored putty and mix it with another color to match (remember there is white and almost black and every color in between) I have to fill nail holes in cedar all the time which has a very large range of colors so I have to have a few colors available and a pallet at hand to mix to match. The only thing this won't do is grain. That's another story.
Thanks all for the advice.
You may want to try lightweight spackling like the "Lightning" fast from DAP. A small 1/2 pint jar would work.Mix in some universal tinting colorants(UTC's) like "TintsAll".You can find the UTC's at paint stores and some hardware stores.The lightweight spackling is easy to apply and dries fast plus it won't shrink.Good luck.F.
I second the wax sticks method. I've hidden nailholes in much closer looked at work. I warm the tip with a bic lighter to smear it in, use a plastic card (credit card) to scrape it flat, then some thinner to wipe the excess.
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You might try Mohawk Finishing products as they have a number of touch up and repair items. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/help/contact.asp
Just something I do and usually works for me.
I use sawdust or perefered plane shavings from the wood I am working with. If using shavings, I grind them up in a common food blender. Mix into dewaxed shellac and press into the hole.
I have used Stick Shellac on occasion.
http://www.constantines.com/browseproducts/Stick-Shellac-Set.html
I have no idea if the stick shellac is dewaxed. Ask Constantines.
I have also tried tinting shellac flakes with alcohol based stains or aniline dye to make a paste. However, I was never good at matching colors.
Maybe this will help.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=NEXT&StoreCode=toolstore&nextpage=/extra/LW-dyeinfo.html
I have no connection to the products in either link.
I use Waterlox a lot and like it. It does have a tendency to change the color of the wood (or filler) it goes on top of. If you fill before applying the Waterlox, you have to compensate for the color change that happens after applying the finish. Getting it exact is nearly impossible at my skill level. For your project, I'd be inclined to fill the holes before the final coat; put on three coats, fill with a good match and then one final coat.
You've been given a lot of good advice. I'd be using color putty, wax, burn-in..... whatever the situation called for. My added suggestions are to modify the shape of particularly difficult to disguise holes. An odd shape will blend far better than a round hole made by a nail set. So change its shape..... use a knife or old chisel to create a life-like "crack looking" hole. Also, I'd advise using at least two colors of putty for each hole. A typical filled hole shows up because that circle of solid color is abnormal on any board.
Changing the shape of the hole is a very clever idea. It inspires me to make some punches to elongate my nail set holes when I next face this challenge. It never occured to me that it's the shape that often gives it away, but it makes perfect sense.
Two things to keep in mind.
Always first put on the finish on some scrap before attempting to match putty color. Wood will change color when finish is applied particularly given the dark phenolic resin using in the sealer/finish.
Second, even with a perfect color match, the nail holes will stand out as they do not have a grain pattern. The interruption of the grain pattern will generally be noticeable.
Always get the customer to sign off on a sample board before proceeding.
not easy but will do the trick. first set your nails 1/4 " deep. get a small v gouge and put a gouge both ways to the middle over the nail head. do the same to a left over piece of wood and glue it in place. a little sanding and it will blend and darken well.this works well on many soft woods but stay away from knots
It seems like all the possible bases have been covered -- as far as filler products and techniques are concerned.
I favor the Color Putty product others have mentioned, mainly because it is available in a wide variety of colors, and it is easy to intermix them. The company even sells a 16 color kit:
http://www.colorputty.com/oil-kit.html
Home page: http://www.colorputty.com/index.html
However, instead of applying the putty after the last coat of varnish, I apply it JUST BEFORE the last coat, which is the technique recommended by the mfg. The putty has a matte finish, and applying the final varnish (or oil) coat will give the entire surface a uniform sheen.
But as others have said, the color of wood will change over time, but not the putty.
But for sure, the match will be perfect until years after the check clears..........<G>
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Good point about 'just before the last coat'. I use wax sticks and also, just before the last coat. More often than not, it makes all the difference.
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